Before he ever arrived in Washington, DC, we (as we're prone to do) thought we already knew so much about Jonathan Davis.  He was a forward who could handle the ball, kind of like Omar Williams.  He didn't play against high quality high school competition, kind of like Matt Allbritton.  He looked awesome in his YouTube video going up against, who exactly?  Then, we grew very fond of him, again before he ever arrived, because he still wanted to come to GW despite an overhaul of the coaching staff.  The same could not be said for his two fellow recruits.  Next came Kenner play where JD was lucky to see three minutes of game action playing for Coach Symonds (I won't go there).  Then came the season and despite an injury to Dwayne smith which would theoretically free up some minutes for JD, those minutes were few and far between.  It would be reported that JD was miserable here, that John Kopriva, his roommate, was his only genuine friend (and Kopriva was getting some minutes which couldn't have helped JD's psyche).  He wanted to transfer and any GW fan could easily understand why.  One thing though, this either wasn't true or something changed.  As Thinker reported, ML selected JD to escort high school recruits around campus, a job that usually wouldn't be given to an unhappy camper.  An anonymous poster who served as a coach to JD claimed that the doubters were all wrong about JD; not only would he return to GW but his play would flourish.  When regulars here did the math and concluded that someone had to give up a scholarship in order to make room for Kevin Larsen, conventional wisdom had JD leaving but in reality, it was Dan Guest who is no longer a current Colonial player.

With more competition for minutes than last season, it would stand to reason that JD will again be a practice player who sees very limited minutes during games.  However, JD is a year older, a year wiser, and perhaps most importantly, has a year of experience playing for this coaching staff.  Stranger things certainly have happened than if JD were to receive an infux in minutes.  So, you make the call:  JD played in 17 games last year averaging 1.6 minutes per game.  Do you see comparable playing time for JD this season, or might he get in most games this upcoming season for an average of say 5-10 minutes per game (or more)?

I never thought JD reminded me of Omar or Matt or anybody else; and I think YouTube is a poor substitute for in person scouting. I hope JD has a slew of buddies and a few real friends at GW and that he doesn't waste his time worrying about what anonymous posters say about him. My guess is that he knows the name of his caoch (the guy who posted here); and he knows that Coach knows more than any Mailman.

MV--Try to be a little upbeat about these guys. Treat them like you'd like MV, jr. to be treated.

Ziik, you really can't contain youself, can you?

Your comprehension just is the pits.  I was not comparing his abilities to Omar or Matt.  I was comparing aspects about JD's game that we had heard about to aspects of Omar's game and Matt's lack of quality high school competition.  My YouTube comment not for a moment was intended to suggest that this be a substitute for in-person scouting.  In fact, it was to suggest that while his play looked very good in the video, it was hard to make a judgment given his quality of opposition. 

Seriously, do you really not understand any of this or are you in such a rush to come back at me with your remarks that you don't really think things through?

Of course he knows the name of his coach (who said he didn't) and that his coach would know more about his game than me. (When did I suggest otherwise?)  Moreover, I did not mistreat JD in that post whatsoever.

You are arguing just to be a dick.  Please stop.

Can you provide any links or evidence to back up the potentially slanderous asssertions contained in your post: 

   - JK was his only genuine frined. 

   - That he wanted to transfer and that he was miserable here.

   - That convenional wisdom had JD leaving (Just because you thought so doesn't make it conventional wisdom. In fact, I remember thinking Guest was the most likely choice all along).

Frankly, my gut tells me you have no idea what you are talking about and that your narrative about JD is woefully uninformed.

I mean, I know I spout off on stuff with no inside knowledge - and I know that's what happens on message boards -- but I'll bet to people who know anything about what really happened with JD, this post goes down as a classic of the 'uninformed but acting otherwise' genre.  

And I know I can be harsh about on-court performance, but to write what you did about a kid's off-court issues without any links or evdience is really kind of mean.

FQ, just tried to do a quick search and unfortunately nothing came up.  I'm not going to spend hours to try to find the evidence you are seeking.  I can assure you that none of the statements in my post should be regarded as stunning.  It was reported that JD was homesick early on.  He apparently made some tweets to this effect.  He mentioned that Kopriva was his roommate and closest friend.  If I took license to imply that he didn't have many other close friends on the team, I apologize right now.  I seemed to recall this being the case at the time and certainly hope that JD is good friends with everyone on the team by now.  I was also very happy to see that he was the player taking high school recruits around campus.  That in and of itself represented a huge improvement from what was reported as a rocky first semester.

There was absolutely nothing mean-spirited by my post and certainly, this was not at all my intent.  JD was far from home, a freshman, not playing very much.  It was all completely understandable.  Again, if he never once had thoughts about wanting to transfer, I apologize for saying otherwise.  But as I said, it would have been easy to understand why under the circumstances.

As a student, and avid GW fan, I have noticed that JD did seem a little homesick and also noted that he was not the most "popular" person in the world. Although it may not be to the extent that he has no friends, he was definitely homesick.

Adjusting to life away from home as a college freshman is a different experience for everyone. I believe it is even more challenging for students in Foggy Bottom not coming from the preponderant eastern seaboard continuum of states that provide the greatest share of GW students.  Judging anyone's day to day adjustment psyche is hard enough by family or someone close to an individual. From afar, it would seem to be a sketchy undertaking at best. Some of us had many friends during our GW years; others of us only had 1 or 2 good friends during that time.  JD is back and hopefully will contribute to the team's success on the court, whether in games or in practice. Just as importantly, hopefully he will enjoy and take advantage of his college years. But he ought to be able to figure out if GW is a good fit for him without the speculations and judgements of others who don't know him.

Poog, I haven't judged him at all.  All I did was repeat what others here have said in the past.  The main purpose of the post was to ask whether people think they may see JD receive increased minutes this season.  Remember?

Yes I remember. But there sure was a lot of extraneous "background" to whether Davis would get increased playing time this year. As for "repeating what others have said," that's typically a backdoor way of introducing things without taking any accountability for it. Nothing wrong IMO speculating on whether Davis will see more playing time. Just not sure why the discussion would go beyond his ability to learn and execute Lonergan's play scheme in comparison to the other players on the team.

MV, if that was your main point, why not just ask the question instead of trying to first define a narrative about the kid based on assumptions about which you are too lazy to even research yourself?

I remember either thinking or maybe even posting that Jonathan appeared homesick based upon the content of some of his tweets.  Likewise, I also thought that it would be Jonathan to transfer.  In his brief brief playing time, he did not seem ready for A-10 quality basketball on either end of the ball.  He rarely played, even during garbage time.  And Dan Guest, the other candidate for "most likely to transfer" seemed far more developed as a player at a position (point guard) in which we needed more help.  My speculation on Dan's situation is that ML likes him as a player but felt that last season was his season to just sit back, learn and develop.   

Now, as for MV...my policy is to always try to stay out of the personal pissing matches that unfortunately occur on this board from time to time.  And yes, I can see how sometimes MV can make people crazy.  And I will also state that I am a friend of ziik's, having known him professionally for many years now.  But personally, I am finding his "you make the call" discussions of the individual players one of the most interesting and intelligent discussions of the off season.

I like discussing players too, just don't think it's necessary to preface it by asserting as fact unsourced rumors about  off-court stuff like whether someone has only 1 friend  or wanted to transfer.

JD had nice HS stats, looked good on youtube and played against mostly weak competition. he obviously didn't impress ML enough to earn playing time last season. i don't see him getting on the floor much this coming season with greater competition. Forget the other nonsense.

The MF's chronic and acute hysteria and hyperbole continue to bother me.

Otherwise, he reminds me of ziik, jr.'s gerbils.

They'd focus on the guy with the crooked nose or the bent tail or the broken foot, and badger the hell out of him for a day or two or three. Then they'd all jump him and eat him.

These summer treatises, especially the ones on GW's bench players, nitpick the poor guys to death. It's not fortuitous.

That's why I dislike them, LSF. As I once said about MIKE BROWN to a fan who was on Mike's back for not dunking the ball (because, at 6'9" and 265 lbs. he ought to have been able to dunk on anybody, even with two 220 pounds hanging on his biceps, even though Mike had an injured big toe--a genuine pain in the ass, if you've ever had it) --- "You know, he's still some mother's little baby boy."

They're all some mother's baby boys. Lighten up on the personal crap, whether it's about current players, past players, or recruits. .

MG '14 - Just curious how you can tell that one student is homesick on a campus of several thousand. Unless you actually talked to him and he told you this...which we know you didnt, as he wasnt popular enough. Please elaborate.

The following is what I actually wrote, or "asserted as fact" according to FQ:

It would be reported that JD was miserable here, that John Kopriva, his roommate, was his only genuine friend (and Kopriva was getting some minutes which couldn't have helped JD's psyche).  He wanted to transfer and any GW fan could easily understand why.  One thing though, this either wasn't true or something changed. 

What I asserted is that it was reported, meaning that someone else or perhaps several others mentioned this on this site.  I go on to say that there is a possibility that this all wasn't even true.  Not exactly asserting a fact.

Yes, FQ, my posts each week could have consisted of nothing more than asking a question.  Interestingly, week in and week out, the question I raise is almost never actually answered so if I was really hell-bent on getting answers to these questions, your suggestion would make a lot of sense.  But I've chosen not to do that for two reasons.  First, the background that I provide, while we all are aware of it, is important to factor when determining why the question is being asked.  In the case of JD, it is not insignificant to discuss that he had a tough time here to start his GW career.  By citing that things have seemingly improved for him personally (being chosen to escort players is a strong sign of this), it helps set up the question of whether he may see increased minutes. Second, although this is not at all what I intended with the direction of this particular thread, this additional background information helps facilitate more meaningful basketball discussion during the off-season. 

LSF, thank you for posting what you did.  I appreciate your understanding my intentions.  And thank you to MG '14 and Newtman for your responses as well.

What I meant to say was that Mike likes Jonathan (not Dan) as a player and simply told Jonathan to sit back, learn and develop last season.

Good grief ... another MV production. And this is pure comedy gold coming from him ... "you are arguing just to be a dick". MV you wouldn't know anything about that would you?

I don't get the issue here.  MV was just rehashing what the typical discussions.speculation were on this board related to Davis.  MV's statements were pretty much how I remembered the discussions related to him going.  So, I took 5 minutes and did some research on this to see if I was remembering correctly.  Below are three of the posts that were most relevant to what MV was saying.  There were more, some of which by MV, but there was discussion of the points that MV mentioned.  He even mentioned that this speculation was wrong.   I don't see anything wrong with rehashing the past statements as background before asking for thoughts on the future.  It provides context.  So, I hope this is helpful.

11/7/2011 11:24:42 PM
Poster: Long Suffering Fan

More on Jonathan Davis.  Over the past few months I have become a tiwtter lurker.  (I think you guys started me on it trying to get hints from Eric Copes whether he was coming here or not).  Anyway, on Twitter about a week or so, I believe he tweeted about being homesick.  Also tweets about feeling alone and gettng encouragement from his father.   Even a response from Kopriva that tries to be encouraging.  It sounds like the poor guy is really struggling on alot of levels.  BTW, he comes across as a real nice kid on tweeter. 

3/8/2012 12:17:37 PM
Poster: Long Suffering Fan

Doubt highly it would be Kromah, who is too skilled and highly unlikely to want to sit another year.  I also think the coach likes him very much.  I would say the odds on favorite to get voted off the island is Davis.  He never got off the bench on a 21 loss team, combined with his home being 3000 miles away.  Further, one thing GW has is plenty of tweeners.  This makes him a logical choice for wanting to transfer.  On the other hand, Guest is a point guard who got some (but not much) playing time and has shown some improvement.  Unlike combo forwards, we are in need of a point guard with some experience (no I have not forgotten Bynes, but Guest is a better shooter, which is another commodity in short supply for GW).

3/8/2012 8:53:30 PM
Poster: Off the Mark

Not sure who or if anyone is leaving but if I had to guess assuming someone was leaving it would be Guest and Davis. Neither can play at this level and need to find schools that are better matches.

Ok, sorry that looks weird, I just copied and pasted from old posts.

Let me get this straight: 

- A couple of uninformed posters guessing that Davis might transfer = "the conventional wisdom"?.  

- A tweet saying he's homesick is evidence "he wanted to transfer" ? 

- A supportive tweet from Kopriva means that Kopriva is his only genuine friend? 

Good to know.

You know, MV complains in just about every thread about his words being misunderstood or taken out of context. Anyone notice the irony here? 

I err, as is probably clear, on the side of anybody being able to post anything reasonable that they want, And for more inside information, rather than keeping things secret, unless they would hurt GW competitively or hurt someone who hasn't harmed the program.

  But a year after someone steps through the classroom doors to speculate on his homesickness, when it has no effect on his play or coming back, and his friends, may be a bit over the line. He seems like a really nice kid.

Issues related to his playing are fair game.

Maybe he is watching and learning and will have a break-out year during his time at GW,just like our very own Antoine Hart and others. He must enjoy GW to stay here. Hope he continues to enjoy GW.Hope he doesn't read this.

If he does, Jonathan we believe you have a great upside potential and support you. Continue to be a great teammate and keep your schoolwork up because that is the most important thing for any GW student.

any chance we could divide this forum into two parts: one where people want to talk about basketball, and one where posters bicker with and insult each other?

 Don't want to bicker of terms such as "conventional wisdom", but I believet most of us strongly suspected that there would be a transfer after this passed season, and that the logical candidates were Jonathan Davis or Dan Guest.  Both were KH recruits with at least 2 years of eligibility left and neither was playing much during the regular season.  Fact is, we were correct in that one of the suspected players did in fact transfer, even though it was not the one I predicted depsite my brilliant and insightful logic stating that it would be Jonathan (mostly based upon the team's needing a point guard more than a small forward).  The fact that Jonathan is still here to me says one of 2 things...(1)  That notwithstanding his limited playing time and the difficulties he did encounter when he did get into the game, the coaching staff sees sometihng in him that they feel can be developed and help the team; or (2) that basketball is truly secondary to Jonathan and he wishes to remain at GW notwithstanding his limited prospects on the team.  Either way, I believe Jonathan's role on the team it is still good fodder for off season discussion.  As for my homesick posting, rememeber that this was dated in early November based upon information that Jonathan himself tweeted.  I was a bit homesick myself my first few weeks.  I got over it quickly and I suspect  so did Jonathan.  Still, the fact that he was so far from home and was hardly playing to me made him the logical candidtate to transfer.  FWIW...I pretty much stopped reading the posts on twitter, from everyone.  They are quite uninteresting and rarely informative.

There were plenty of objective reasons, which everyone knows, why it wouldn't have been surprising if he left.  The fact that he's here suggests he really wants to be here and has quite a bit of perserverance, both of which are very positive.  He might not be anything more than a scout team player ,but if most of the recruits and Armwood pan out, he's a luxury we can afford, and more power to him.

Davis' decision to stay at GW also helps to disprove the contention by some on this board that the players on the team resented and disliked Lonergan and his staff because of their replacement of Hobbs & Co. and the  new regime's more open and honest assesment of the players.  That theory, as most of the bull crap promoted by the anti-Lonergan crowd, was complete nonsense. 

Who comprises the anti-Lonergan crowd bobo? I don't think one (MV) or two (DEA) makes a crowd.

I accidentally deleted a sentence to the previous post. It should read: "Who comprises the anti-Lonergan crowd bobo? I don't think one (MV) or two (DEA) makes a crowd. That said, I generally agree with the point you made."

If 2 is company and 3 a crowd, than CBO is right.  And a very strange company indeed.

Is it the heat? Do you guys need air conditioning?

CBO and Bobo, you guys enjoy showing off either your stubborness or your inability to grasp a simple concept every chance you get.  First, here's the reality.  For as much as I post here, if I were really and truly an "anti-Lonergan guy", don't you think that my criticisms and attacks would occur more frequently and ferociously?  Think about it....I thought that GW might realistically be a 20 win season last year without the changes and would be a legitimate NIT contender.  With the changes, we were nowhere close to this mark.  We looked like a team that was clearly out of sorts for much of the season.  If I were what you claim me to be, wouldn't I be calling for the guy's head after every loss?  Wouldn't I be reminding this board every chance I had how this season would have been completely different under Hobbs?  Wouldn't that all make sense?

Instead, these are the actual criticisms that you received from me:

1) I was obviously upset about the coaching change and felt the choice of ML was uninspired to use my word.  I thought the selection was easy given the connections to both JK (Catholic) and Nero (America East).  I was admittedly in the Joe Dooley camp.

2) I criticized ML for a being a bit too brutally honest about his players to the media.  I thought that some of his remarks ran the risk of destroying player confidence.  In addition, I did surmise that the players may very well have been missing Hobbs and that this could be impacting their play.

3) I observed that the players weren't grasping their roles, specifically in the flex offense, and criticized ML for trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

4) I claimed that ML doesn't deserve a free pass.  Actually, I don't deem this a criticism, simply a fact of life.  In today's day and age, nobody gets a free pass.  Interestingly, I believe ML would be the first person to agree with this.

As the season progressed, our winning percentage did not radically improve.  However, feel free to search my comments about ML say starting around mid-January or so, and you'd realize the following:

I praised ML for his flexibility in changing up schemes and presumably giving the players more leeway in finding their games.

I specifically credited ML for coaching decisions in several games.

I applauded ML for improving his demeanor when it came to dealing with the media about his team.

Like everyone, I have been nothing but compimentary when it comes to ML and staff's recruiting efforts.

So there is no question that even if you've been paying a little attention to my posts about ML in 2012, you would find that I have recognized and acknowledged many positive traits.  My use of the word uninspired was hasty and I'm saying this about a coach whose team went 10-21 last season.  Like I said, to continue to claim that I am "anti-Lonergan" is evidence that you are either very stubborn or not very bright.

MV, you stated when you began these exposes or whatever you called them, that you didn't want to play head games.   Well that's all any of these posts of yours had done.  Unless your're God, stop it. Go back to the place you came from, and stay the hell there.

So, who is the dope posting as The "reasonable" MV?

(this post is not mine. I'm busy making up a fantastical sports memory)