the dude3/19/2017 11:23:58 PM
Slimy Coach K has had a lot of major upsets against his squads the last decade or so.
Wow, South Carolina, 44 years between NCAA wins, and now goodbye Duke. Coach K will be behind a dumpster somewhere in the next few days with bags of $ to some AAU Coach for his next 1 and done.
Kudos Frank Martin, aka "the 1 armed man that killed my wife" Helluva Coach.
rkelley3/19/2017 11:44:46 PM
Duke got screwed on a few calls, but no doubt about it, South Carolina was focused, determined and confident. The athletes they have on their team--wow. Way better than I expected. Felder--the little 2-star recruit--beat Allen like he wasn't there and they were forced to foul him at crucial points. Silva just dominated on the boards, and Thornwell never lost his stride throughout the game. They couldn't slow him down in the second half, and he kept getting open on the perimeter. Man-to-man, their players just couldn't keep up with SC's speed. In zone, they got back-doored over and over.
Luke Kennard wants to play in the NBA? Well those athlethes and that defense was a huge test on this stage, and he was totally outplayed.
the dude3/20/2017 12:22:10 AM
RK, good analysis, agreed. Watching these SEC teams play, I'm impressed with how strong and athletic they are. This was a particularly soft Duke team, no real interior play, little post game, soft interior D, and no real point guard. Physically overmatched Duke.
K has a rep as a "great coach" but isn't he just a great recruiter? Where is the evidence that he is innovative, or gets more out of his teams than his talent? Funny thing is that Coach Cal gets the "great recruiter only" rep but really, I'm convinced he's the better Coach, and I loathe that guy, but seriously, can't ignore what's clear. Cal is innovative, ahead of the curve, and squeezed a lot out of teams in his early days that really weren't all that talent laden. When has Coach K?
hippo man3/20/2017 12:34:31 AM
The donkey who touts a man who has never been to the Final 4 as the greatest coach in America has the unmitigated gall to say Coach K can't coach. What an embarrassment that we have such low IQ posters here.
the sons of liberty3/20/2017 12:35:40 AM
It was kind of fun watching the Duke players complain about bad calls.
the dude3/20/2017 12:53:18 AM
Coach K's Duke teams, Upset 8 times in NCAA's this decade:
1. Upset in 2007, lost round 1, to 11 seed
2. Upset in 2008, 2 seed, bounced round 2, 2 vs 10
3. Upset in 2009, 2 seed, lost round 3
4. Upset in 2011 1 seed, bounced round 3 1 vs 5
5. Upset in 2012 2 seed, lost ROUND 1, 2 vs 15
6. Upset in 2014, 3 seed, lost ROUND 1, 3 vs 14
7. Upset in 2016, 4 seed, lost round 3
8. Upset in 2017, 2 seed, lost round, 2 vs 7
the dude3/20/2017 1:05:59 AM
Go back 2 more years:
1 seed, in 06. Lost round 3
1 seed, in 05, lost Round 3.
That's 10 NCAA upsets, many of them major upsets in the last 13 years.
10x in rounds 1-3.
Steve Lavin got fired because he could not get UCLA past the Sweet 16 (but the guy lived in the Sweet 16) Coach K has 10x in 13 years failed to do so. Less with more, too many seasons.
boom3/20/2017 1:47:15 AM
Says here that ' Hippo Man' = The MV. Lame. That is a lot of early round losses for Duke.
notta hater3/20/2017 1:51:57 AM
the dude your logic reminds me of our political wind bags - take any metric and then stretch the facts to fit the narrative. If you define losing to a lower seed as an upset I guess I have to say ok you're right - but really? Third round games as evidence of a failure? Say nothing of two national crowns during that same stretch? I get your point that a man who gets first pick of all the players year after year should not lose to teams that have to rely on somewhat lesser talent - or even an argument that it cannot be that hard to win a crown when all you have to do is roll the ball onto the court and let your future NBA laden team do its work. But I think your particular narrative is a tiny bit off base. And get me, I like watching Duke and UNC lose.
the dude3/20/2017 2:15:28 AM
What is off base? 10x in 13 years? When you are the 1 seed (the #1 overall #1 seed no less) and you lose round 3, to a 5 seed, yes, that's an upset. Its not on par with the years he lost to 15 and 14 seeds but its an upset. When you are Duke and you 10x in 13 seasons in the first 3 rounds (often rounds 1 and 2) that's a bizarre # of early rounds losses for a team that has been NBA loaded for so long and is almost always a 1 or 2 seed.
10 Times in 13 seasons? 5 times in the last 10 years in round 1 or 2. Losses to 15 and 14 seeds? This South Carolina team was getting drubbed down the stretch in the SEC and could barely score. Duke has, 5 NBA players? 7? What were the odds, 12 to 1? What were the odds against the 15 seed? 80 to 1? Lot of upsets, some huge and some moderate. They are a 1 or 2 seed almost every year, when he was a 6 (lost round 1) 8 (lost round 1) When is the last time he beat a team that had a better seed? He's had chances, its been 23 years. 23 years!
Heard a few times Sunday that UNC has won 20 straight times against seeds 8 or lower. 20 in a row. How many times has K lost in that stretch? A lot.
notta hater3/20/2017 2:38:14 AM
i will never convince you that your point may be a bit overstated or that your support to get there is a bit flawed, I get that. But the guy won two national championships during the same stretch you examine and lost in the sweet sixteen rounds two or three times during that same period. Two national championships in 12 years when Dean Smith won I think two during a 30 year stretch - with a roster filled with nba all-stars btw. I dont want to even include the years I think Duke was overly generously seeded by the committee - when they were 1's and should have been 3's, or 2's when they should have been on the 3 or 4 line. I will simply agree to disagree with you.
gw19873/20/2017 2:43:43 AM
With the talent Duke had they should of won more than two national titles in that stretch. Instead, they continue to be bumped out by feeder teams. Duke is an overrated pile of horse poop, just like VCU.
the dude3/20/2017 2:56:05 AM
Notta, do you fill out brackets? I suspect most here do. In those 13 years, I'll bet in the 10x he lost in the first 3 rounds, 90% of the people here had them winning those lost games, and 90% nationally. That's the sole point, that they won big in the other years doesn't materially alter than in 10 of the 13 years they were upset, my point at hand; that he's had a ton of early round upsets lately.
Its not overstated, its just a statement of facts. For those of us (many here) that do not like K, brings a little joy IMO.
thinker3/20/2017 3:09:31 AM
You all are missing the most delicious part of it all.
Duke almost always gets to play early round games in North Carolina. Because of the "Bathroom Bill" controversy, the NCAA is not hosting any games there and moved this round to SOUTH CAROLINA.
So Duke got beat in the "home" of the much lower seed. HAH
Maybe the North Carolina legislature can try to pass legislation overturning the game result.
the dude3/20/2017 3:18:24 AM
Thinker, excellent point! Meant to mention that on the other thread. "The Bathroom bill upset"
Roy Willams and North Carolina. They've also had a ton of very good seeds. (They also won 2 titles in those 13 years btw Notta) Number of times they've been upset in the first 3 rounds in those 13 years? ZERO. Its not a normal thing for a powerhouse program to lose 10x to worse seeds in the first 3 rounds in 13 seasons.
Its off the charts. He could have won a 3rd tourney, 10 would still be a lot of early round upsets. I believe quite a few have been IN NORTH Carolina too like you mention Thinker.
tuna can3/20/2017 3:40:45 AM
Notta! yes.... well said. Even more to the point, as much as I hate watching Duke for fear that they win, they go into the tourney with a high seed when we only dream of sneaking in the back door.
Compare that Duke ride with what we have at GW now... a bit of "band of brothers" playing for their team and not much more. There is certainly a bit of drama involved in going of to the windy city for a one-and-done face-off against anyone. Tons of personal pressure for a player with little interest from fans. This is when one really appreciates the players and the coaches. I may be one of those folks who thinks that there is something special happening with this team. Win and extend the season, as well.
Until then, if you really don't care much about the NCAA tourney, just watching with a cold drink in your hand, this is one for the ages.... The making of a BC.
tennessee colonial3/20/2017 8:47:50 AM
Another good comment Tuna. Right on.
the mv3/20/2017 11:28:34 AM
It is a statement of fact that Coach K's Duke teams have been upset quite a bit in the tournament. This is true almost any year where they fail to reach the title game since his teams are always successful during the regular season and therefore warrant very strong seeds. As we know, it takes just 1 loss to get knocked out of the tournament so Coach K's teams, when they don't win it all or say at least make the finals, are theoretically being upset.
But your argument isn't this. It's whether Coach K is a good coach, or merely just a good recruiter. You can't possibly be a bad coach with his career accomplishments, both winning percentage and national championships, regardless of the caliber of your players. Calipari's talent over the past decade has been every bit as good as Coach K's and he's won it all a grand total of 1 time. Does anyone think that Sean Miller is a bad coach? Has great talent every year and has yet to reach a final 4. Ask the University of Washington what it has meant to have talent over the past several years.
And, I haven't even gotten to your accusation, which I can only assume was a bad joke, that Coach K pays AAU coaches for players. Of course, you don't have an ounce of proof of this. You, along with all of your aliases, are simply put the most wreckless poster imaginable. You just post here whatever the hell you want without any regard to consequences or ramifications. It's why you have zero credibility in my book, and I'd have to believe in the books of many others here.
gyph3/20/2017 11:44:54 AM
Every point The Dude has made in this thread is just conventional basketball wisdom nowadays. Williams has been demonstrably more successful than K has over the course of Williams' tenure at UNC. I should have expected that the same morons screaming about old school basketball and being more like Bobby Knight would also be Coach K fanboys. The irony is that I am sure that K is well aware of Williams' success as compared to his own, because he's not a blind fool.
I also have to die laughing at the recklessness of "accusing" K of handing over money. Let's be fair, he would have Capel do it. LOLOLOL.
the mv3/20/2017 12:13:07 PM
Conventional basketball wisdom is that Coach K isn't a good coach, only a good recruiter? It's a shame that I know that GYPH and The Dude are two different people. Neither as a result has a corner on the market when it comes to knowing so little about this sport.
notta hater3/20/2017 12:20:51 PM
can't wait to see where this goes.
bobo3/20/2017 12:33:23 PM
bo knows3/20/2017 12:47:35 PM
Grew up a Carolina fan so my dislike for Duke runs deep. But you have to respect that program. I think Duke has been caught in the one and dones for about the past 4 or 5 years. Coach K is most effective when he is able to develop players/teams over a period of years. I think Calipari is more adpatable to the current climate. Coach K fools us because he has serious front line talent. But he does not have a deep bench and that is what has been hurting him the most recently. Plus his teams aren't as physical and the previous Duke teams. He has admitted as much. Kids are no longer willing to go to Duke and sit behind ones and dones in order to develop. And Coach K isn't willing to completely sell his soul by doing what Calipari does and bring in 5 new players (one and dones) every year. My guess is that Coach K is about to bid Duke adios. I give it 1-2 years max.
the dude3/20/2017 1:42:43 PM
Has he lost by upset in 10 of the last 13 years? Often huge upsets?Its been 23 years since he's beat a better seed, he's only I believe had 6 chances, but he's lost them all. Why is that?
Those are facts, and they are never mentioned because the media is too busy selling Coach K as the Patron Saint of all that is Holy/some sort of mastermind great Coach.
bc3/20/2017 2:01:21 PM
Tuna Can, I know just where that kid is at.
the dude3/20/2017 3:47:10 PM
Last night joins a long list from a man who has not beaten a better seed in 23 years, but routinely loses to worst seeds. Just a few of them:
2007 – No. 6 lost to No. 11, VCU, first round
The Devils were seventh in the ACC after losing superstars J.J. Redick and Shelden Williams. VCU was not yet VCU – this was a bad loss to an inferior team – but Eric Maynor was the real deal.
USA TODAY Sports Images
Jeremy Brevard-USA TODAY Sports
1997 No. 2 lost to No. 10 Providence, second round
A better version of the 1996 team but one that was 5-7 against top-25 competition. It’s hard to assign too much disappointment to a team that started Greg Newton 30 times.
2014 – No. 3 lost to No. 14 Mercer, first round
Once Duke showed it wasn’t infallible (in a loss that’ll come up later on the list), it was far less of a bombshell when it happened again. This was the worst Duke defense in nearly 20 years and the offense proved the old saying true: When you live by the three, you die by the three. Much like on Sunday, the Devils couldn’t get a grip after an underdog clawed its way back into the game and went 0-4 from beyond the arc in crunch time.
2008 – No. 2 lost to No. 7 West Virginia, second round
This was becoming an epidemic. The loss to Bob Huggins and the Mountaineers marked the seventh time in the previous eight years (dating back to the team’s 2001 national championship) that Duke hadn’t made a regional final and put the team’s NCAA tournament record in games outside North Carolina at 5-7. West Virginia famously had no McDonald’s All-Americans on their team while the Dukies had eight. The first real jaw-dropped on this list.
USA TODAY Sports Images
Bob Donnan-USA TODAY Sports
1993 – No. 3 lost to No. 6 California, second round
The Blue Devils were coming off back-to-back national titles and five-straight Final Four appearances, so when Jason Kidd knocked out the team in a stunning second rounder it was instantly the most astonishing loss of the Krzyzewski era. In retrospect, it’s less surprising. (Things always are though, aren’t they?) Though Bobby Hurley was a senior and Grant Hill emerged as a sophomore superstar, replacing Christian Laettner with Cherokee Parks was never going to turn out well.
2017 – No. 2 lost to No. 7 South Carolina, second round
Sunday was bad but, with the same benefit of time, we may regard Duke’s March revival to have been a lot of smoke and mirrors. The Devils, who played through injuries and Grayson Allen antics for the first few months of the season, was never good enough to warrant a No. 1 seed and, by virtue of an impressive ACC tournament win, made people forget they ended the regular season losers three-of-four (and were a blown layup from having it been four-of-five). The 2016-17 Blue Devils are who we thought they were: A talented team that could hang with anyone in the country but, throw ’em against a tough defense and see the shots not fall, and they were also a team that could also play down to the level of any opponent.
2002 – No. 1 lost to No. 5 Indiana, Sweet 16
This was a little deeper into the tournament but was no less an upset. Indiana was a mediocre Big Ten team and Duke was on a collision course for an All-ACC title game against Maryland. Then Jason Williams missed a free throw on a possible four-point play in the final seconds to cap a meltdown by the defending champs.
2006 – No. 1 lost to No. 4 LSU, Sweet 16
The 2006 Duke squad, starring J.J. Redick and Shelden Williams, was better than both the 2010 and 2015 title teams. But just like four years before, the double-digit favorites collapsed in a Sweet 16 game that everybody was looking past. Redick went 3-18 and left the court in tears, Big Baby Davis and Tyrus Thomas were dominating the paint and Duke was bounced from a tournament that was theirs to lose.
2012 – No. 2 lost to No. 15 Lehigh, first round
Bad defense and cold shooting (Duke was 6-26 on three pointers) led the 2011-12 Blue Devils to the most stunning loss in school history. You could argue (and I deeply thought about) either the Indiana or LSU game being a bigger upset, but the Lehigh game best sums up the Duke tournament letdowns. (It was also a 15-over-2 upset, a win that’s still so rare you can count the number of times it’s happened on your fingers.)
the mv3/20/2017 4:31:19 PM
Why you must be right Dude. Coach K is a horrible coach after all.
If only there was a way that he could be removed from the Hall of Fame or be forced to vacate those 5 NCAA championships? You obviously have the visual evidence to make this happen.
squid3/20/2017 4:38:16 PM
One thing Coach K is usually good at is getting the refs to call a game the way he wants it. Saw that against them in Greensboro and many other times.
the dude3/20/2017 6:17:34 PM
Why is K 0-6 when he's been the lesser seed? 23 years without winning one of those games? If he's such an amazing X and O's Coach, wouldn't you expect him to win some of those games?
In the rare years when he's had a 6 or an 8 seed, why has he always lost those games to 11 and 9 seeds?
Finally why has he so rarely been the lesser seed....Yes he's had a lot of 1 seeds, but he's also had a lot of 2 and 3 seed, he's getting bounced by 15, 14, 7, 10, 7 seeds a lot, so he rarely gets his team in position to play a better seed. When he has, he's lost every time for 23 years.
Izzo, Roy, Calipari, Self, they've all taken lesser seeds on deep runs, and they've had far fewer major upsets. Losing 10 times in 13 seasons to lesser seeds, is just not a normal thing. Never beating a better seed in 23 seasons, not a normal thing.
If you dislike Duke, its a delight.
porter713/20/2017 6:36:38 PM
Not sure what you are talking about with some of those coaches you mentioned. Bill Self's Kansas team haven't gone on deep runs as lesser seeds. Maybe when we was coach at Illinois or Tulsa but Kansas gets a high seed every year and almost always gets bounced too early. He's only made 2 Final Fours, and he was #1 or #2 seed for those. I can't stand Coach K, but he is an amazing Coach. It's hard, even for Blue Bloods, to have the success he has year in and year out.
class of 133/20/2017 6:55:28 PM
So I'm not a coach K fan, but let's be at least a little fair. 2016 is not on the list of year's they were upset as they were a #4 and lost to #1 oregon in the sweet 16. Also, using the point that he hasn't beat a higher seed in 23 years is a flawed argument when he's been a #1 seed in 11 of those seasons and therefore can't beat a higher seeded team... Also being a #1 seed half the time speaks to being a pretty good coach. He's also been to five national championship games in those 23 years that are the apparent point of reference (most of any coach) and has won 3 (2nd most for a program to UConn's 4 in that time frame.)
So it's rather silly to say he's overrated or just a great recruiter. He won a championship where Kyle Singler and John Scheyer were his best players for goodness sake. I enjoy hating on Coach K and the Dukies whe they lose, but let's be fair here.