By: Jj (33 posts) - 7/25/2016 10:06:09 PM

My friend in the GW school administration just told me this!  GW Athletic Director Patrick Nero was not in charge of the men's basketball program this past season.  A member of the athletic department went to GW President Knapp in September 2015 and reported that Nero was having an inappropriate relationship with a men's basketball student athlete which included daily closed door meetings and dinner at Nero's residence.  President Knapp was told of many "red flags" and possible impermissible benefits the student athlete received from Nero.  After internal conversations, Knapp ordered Nero to stay away from the student athlete and the other players and put a Senior Associate Athletic Director in charge of the basketball program.  All of this has been reported internally to senior members of the GW school administration the last 2 years. 
The Washington Post article is retaliation as reporter was directed to call certain players the person orchestrating this article told him to call in order to take the focus off the real story.   Lonergan didn't say anything alleged in the article.   All of the details of this will be exposed after the external investigation. 

By: NewGWFan (510 posts) - 7/25/2016 10:08:53 PM

If that's true, and I'm ML I'm suing the crap out of someone.

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/25/2016 10:14:23 PM

If true, it is shameful shit. But, why would Knapp treat it seriously if he knew it was a sham? 

Quite a shame. 

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/25/2016 10:17:28 PM

Sounds like total bullshit.  Not saying it is, saying it sounds like total bullshit. ......No, check that, I'm saying it is total bullshit and if you believe that you are a damn fool, no offense.

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 7/25/2016 10:25:43 PM

Wow!  

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/25/2016 10:50:05 PM

Does anyone else find it bizarre that an investigation is done only as a result of an anonymous article. The school and all parties involved knew this article was coming out for quite some time. So the school initiates an investigation only after the article comes out?? So melodramatic. If they really thought things were an issue don't you think an investigation would have been done prior. Seems as if they are just doing an investigation to appear as if an effort is being made in university's behalf 

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/25/2016 10:52:32 PM

My guess, the guy who posted the #5 post on this string, using my name, is Putin. Damned trouble maker!!

By: GW 69 (7/25/2016 10:53:30 PM)

Im with the Dude. What a convoluted mess of a story.The Post story 

was a plant? Yikes! Almost time to go to bed. This thread makes me

tired.

By: BC (1,645 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:03:48 PM

all the more reason to wait till the facts a known.  I do find it difficult to believe that a reliable person in the admin would tell anybody this story.

By: bobo (3,178 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:14:07 PM

Image result for soap opera

By: adclub (377 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:31:52 PM

The junkies did say they have info that will break this whole thing open but couldn't share it....

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:33:07 PM

I can confirm only the second sentence of JJ's report. I cannot confirm the reason for it - it was strange - but I heard the same thing from a reliable source awhile back. Thought it had no relationship to anything that we have been discussing so didn't mention it. I have never been told the reason behind it and certainly not the story set forth in JJ's post. But this all goes to the original point. Just as the Post tried ML based on anonymous sources this post does the very same thing to PN. Sad on both accounts really. Neither ML or PN need to have reputations ruined by anonymous reports.

We are apparently in the midst of a civil war for the hearts and minds of the GW athletics and the men's basketball program. Watch your back! I continue to trust that ML will ultimately be vindicated in all of this.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:37:12 PM

Image result for pandora's box

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:40:51 PM

Two allegations, one story, we all wish isn't true, would vastly benefit the program to be found untrue, and yet is plausibly true/partially true and wouldn't come as a giant shock (to me at least)  It was also reported in a national paper of distinction with 6 sources including 5 players and 1 former ML staff member.

the 2nd story was typed by anonymous poster  "Jj" from what he claims was told to him, reads totally implausible, made up, and a giant distraction from what is already the biggest story in GW recent history.  But man, it doesn't take much to get some people here to pounce!  In related news I have been told by a GW official tonight that GW Football is coming back in 2018 and GW will rejoin the SEC schools, Alabama here we come!! Forget the 1955 Sun Bowl, we want the SEC crown!!

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:48:14 PM

Righto Dude. But, why waste time here with a concocted lie by jj? The lie goes nowhere, and does not affect the Post story. It makes me pause a bit.

By: BC (1,645 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:49:43 PM

I can just see it now, a mighty crowd of 1000 at RFK to see GW football.  Is it still called that?  Well it's a change of topic.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:51:24 PM

In fairness ziik, the second sentence of jj's post is not a lie. The rest of it ... I have no idea.

By: LA Fan (1,525 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:52:40 PM

Regardless of what anyone here believes or doesn't believe, this is all becoming disastrous for the program.  This story about Nero could just be a fabrication, but still if I didn't think it could get any worse, it may just have.

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/25/2016 11:59:31 PM

Jj's post reminds of drunk uncle from SNL.  If you haven't watched SNL much the last few years you are 1) Wise 2) need to google that for context.

Agree Ziik, but I feel a need to call such insidious BS for what it is.

Still called RFK, I believe the DC soccer team plays there, I still miss the days you could watch the early Nats game there for 10 bucks and Miller Lite bottles were like 3 bones.  What a dump, but it beats dropping 200 on Nats tickets and 6 drinks. Bought 2 rounds of 4 beers and 2 Jack Daniels last week for some ladies and it cost 66 bucks a round! MPire the new upscale strip club has more reasonable drinking prices!! And the "Teddy" there is a a little easier on the eyes.

 

By: LA Fan (1,525 posts) - 7/26/2016 12:00:29 AM

Regardless of what anyone here believes or doesn't believe, this is all becoming disastrous for the program.  This story about Nero could just be a fabrication, but still if I didn't think it could get any worse, it may just have.

By: BACCAS92 (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 12:40:01 AM

I am so confused.  

By: Bigfan (2,829 posts) - 7/26/2016 3:52:28 AM

Holy crap! ( good headline for Post story,come to think of it). Have no idea what to think.

No idea what is true. But Bo,if it is indeed Bo, confirmed second sentence.

Did point to a bizarre Shakesperian drama. Also did note several times that Nero had a lawyer best known for sexual harassment,something that no one seemed to pick up on.

And the fact that she is quoted and her seemingly odd comment from out of nowhere.

If even a smidgen of this is true,take back what I said about the story. Way worse than a piece of shit if this is the real direction. Naivete at its best.

In comments section of the Post, someone said story was likely a Nero plant. Go back and read.

This does provide some explanation,if at all correct. ML would go ballistic,as would any coach or human being. 

No idea if any of this is true,but if it is really Bo,will take him at his word. He didn' t post original statement and if indeed him, just carefully confirmed it.

Would have gotten this story out if were ML' s people. Now that' s a good read.

Because now, IF TRUE, alleged story line reads like ML. protecting player from a predator. 

That sounds more like ML.

Unlike some,not rushing to judgment on anyone, ML or Nero.

But would wait for other shoes to drop.

Speaking of dropping, would welcome any more insight from JJ, Bo Knows or anyone else.

 Something has to explain these bizarre maneuverings that went unexplained in the story.

Keep the information coming--and soon.

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 6:27:56 AM

JJ tells the truth.

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 6:33:16 AM

It is completely untrue. 

By: bobo (3,178 posts) - 7/26/2016 6:56:42 AM

Who are Skittles and Poster and what are their agendas?

Frankly, I don't believe either one of them.

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:00:05 AM

I have no agenda. Was asked not to speak on this until now. I'll stake my rep on this one, and my track record here speaks for itself bobo. 

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:03:43 AM

Spreading lies such is this is reprehensible.  I can't wait for the investigation to be done and Lonergan to be GONE.

By: bballfan (7/26/2016 7:11:13 AM)

Poster, When ML is cleared and Nero is gone - will you please leave?!

By: seangw83 (73 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:15:59 AM

I have no idea what's true or untrue, but I see little to no way both PN and ML are still standing after the truth is actually uncovered.

Combined with a new University President next year, seems to be a time of great upheaval for both the Athletic Department and University. 

By: GW69 (7/26/2016 7:16:16 AM)

Could the plant be a plant? This has become increasingly absurd.There is no good news here for ML nor PN. What a cluster!! This meta--level

labyrinth of a story is off the rails. It's gone way beyond what is true,

unfortuneatly. No winners here.Lives and reputations are changed

forever no matter what the outcome.

By: Hugh Jaynus (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:18:39 AM

When ML is exonerated, can the Dude please leave the board? Thought his basketball arguments were bad...

By: 2cents (32 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:23:35 AM

I don't know what to make of all this. If this is true, is anyone else wondering what an "innapproptaite relationship" in this context is?  As I understand it, any type of relationship with a scholarship player where they receive benefits in any form would be deemed inappropriate...like even taking them to Taco Bell for dinner. Or is this an "inappropriate relationship" of the sexual kind? 

By: Hugh Jaynus (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:25:45 AM

2cents...I'm assuming the latter.

By: Thomas (1,146 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:28:19 AM

bobo, I kind of believe both Skittles and Poster, as well as both Pro-Lonergan versus Anti-Lonergan sides because ML's personality indicates to me that elements to both sides of the story can be true. The Lonergan camp/supporters are saying ML is a saint and has done nothing wrong, and there are 1 or 2 individuals who are trying to ruin him. The anti-Lonergan group are describing him as an Out-Of-Control Maniac!! It's obvious from ML's "animated" sideline antics and 'Straight No Chaser' way of communicating to people that he's very capable of vile insults to or about his players, his coaches and/or his A.D.

On the other hand, we've had several of his current and former GW players come to his defense, along with 2 former Maryland players(Will Bowers and Nik Caner-Medley) who only played under ML when he was an assistant for one year in 2006(10 YEARS AGO!!!). I'm particulary impressed that the Maryland players would come to his defense because they were only around ML for 1 season, and thought so highly of him that they decided to speak up publicly in his defense.

By: Bballfan (7/26/2016 7:29:16 AM)

Let me spell it out for you - I would say anytime the AD meets one on one with a player repeatedly, having dinner only with said player, having said player at his private residence - unless they are related, that is inappropriate!!!  The coach does not only not meet with players alone, but they only go as a team or group.  This is beyond creepy!

By: Remember Fort Myer (14 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:32:58 AM

"Some modern historians question the reliability of ancient sources when reporting on Nero's tyrannical acts."  from Wikipedia

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:36:13 AM

+1 bballfan 

By: Maine Colonial (487 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:36:29 AM

Last year was the best year in the history of GW Athletics and this year was shaping up to be even better...until this mess. Unbelievably sad. Both sides have to share some blame for it becoming such a public debacle. Then again it pales compared to the presidential election. 

By: bballfan (7/26/2016 7:46:46 AM)

Funny how the results of the investigation last year did not make the Post - maybe ML, or those who knew, did not feel the need to disgrace PN in the public.  Makes you wonder why this story even came out.  Any reporter worth his weight would have done a more thorough job finding out facts and motives.  For example - why is there tension between coach and AD?  Why was an associate AD now traveling with the team when there was nothing found against ML?  The school is never going to comment on personnel actions - get real. 

By: Mike K (1,177 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:48:18 AM

I will quote what went through many of our mides when we read this: "Holy Fuck!"

As far as Skittles, he has had accurate info in the past.

By: Keith Greene (151 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:53:11 AM

This whole story is analogous to a high school student accusing a teacher of sexual abuse.  The reputation of said teacher is damaged - maybe even irreperably - by such an allegation, whether true or untrue.

I have no doubt that Coach Lonergan is tough on the players; whether he is abusive is another question.  Enough players have spoken out in his support to cast doubt on the allegations of abuse.  Where are the graduated players claiming that Lonergan was abusive?  They have nothing to lose by coming forward, just as Garino, Armwood and Creek have nothing to gain.

The allegation makes front-page news.  When the teacher gets exonerated, it's on page 56!

I refuse to pass judgment on either Coach Lonergan or AD Nero until the facts are out.  It's not right.

By: Keith Greene (151 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:53:12 AM

This whole story is analogous to a high school student accusing a teacher of sexual abuse.  The reputation of said teacher is damaged - maybe even irreperably - by such an allegation, whether true or untrue.

I have no doubt that Coach Lonergan is tough on the players; whether he is abusive is another question.  Enough players have spoken out in his support to cast doubt on the allegations of abuse.  Where are the graduated players claiming that Lonergan was abusive?  They have nothing to lose by coming forward, just as Garino, Armwood and Creek have nothing to gain.

The allegation makes front-page news.  When the teacher gets exonerated, it's on page 56!

I refuse to pass judgment on either Coach Lonergan or AD Nero until the facts are out.  It's not right.

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 8:07:43 AM

Poster can join The Dude in getting the hell out of here once Lonergan is cleared. 

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 7/26/2016 8:36:40 AM

Lets just say that for selfish reasons, that if there is one guilty party and one who has to go, I am hoping it would be the AD rather than the coach.  And I am saying this not personally knowing either the coach or the AD, but the fact is the coach is the face of the team.  At least in the short term, his departure would be far more damaging to the team, which is really all I (and I suspect many others on this board) care about.   It would cause far more upheaval and be far more disruptive recruiting wise, attendance wise and general overall image.  The AD is a very important job...but by in large he they are nameless suits.   Replace one with the other and most of the world would not notice.   Now, having said that, I may somewhat disagree with bball fan's statement that "anytime the AD meets one on one with a player repeatedly, having dinner only with said player, having said player at his private residence - unless they are related, that is inappropriate!!!"  It certainly may raise eyebrows, but there could also be innocent explanations (i.e. the player was having a family or personal crisis and needed an adult to reach out to).   And just like we should not bash the coach on what is being written and give him the benefit of the "innocent until proven guilty presumption", the same shouild hold true for the AD, as much as I may want the blame to fall on him rather than the coach.

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 7/26/2016 8:36:41 AM

Lets just say that for selfish reasons, that if there is one guilty party and one who has to go, I am hoping it would be the AD rather than the coach.  And I am saying this not personally knowing either the coach or the AD, but the fact is the coach is the face of the team.  At least in the short term, his departure would be far more damaging to the team, which is really all I (and I suspect many others on this board) care about.   It would cause far more upheaval and be far more disruptive recruiting wise, attendance wise and general overall image.  The AD is a very important job...but by in large he they are nameless suits.   Replace one with the other and most of the world would not notice.   Now, having said that, I may somewhat disagree with bball fan's statement that "anytime the AD meets one on one with a player repeatedly, having dinner only with said player, having said player at his private residence - unless they are related, that is inappropriate!!!"  It certainly may raise eyebrows, but there could also be innocent explanations (i.e. the player was having a family or personal crisis and needed an adult to reach out to).   And just like we should not bash the coach on what is being written and give him the benefit of the "innocent until proven guilty presumption", the same shouild hold true for the AD, as much as I may want the blame to fall on him rather than the coach.

By: Hoopsfan78 (7/26/2016 8:37:01 AM)

JJ/Skittles,

I know for a fact that there is no truth to this story at all.  In fact Nero was as involved as ever with the Basketball team and all other teams. 

1.) if this story were true and the university didn't dismiss Nero for cause on the spot they are open to lawsuits and potentially more

2.) Why would the university publically announce an investigation of ML by outside law firm as well as conducting a review after the 2014-2015 season.

3.) Mo Creek on the radio defended Nero (i forget the first part of what he answered, but second part was "i stop by and say hi when i'm back visiting"

4.) players on the team have a very good relationship with Nero and frequently stop by his office for random talks.

5.) patrick has hosted many team events and fundraisers that included ML (as well as some that ML chose not to attend)

In my opinion this is someone very close to mike planting a story to try and divert attention.  This is truely a new low for all involved.

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 8:52:34 AM

I only post as skittles, for the hundredth time. Unlike some of the posters on this board I don't suffer from multiple personality disorder or stupidity. A lot of your points are misleading and Creek wasn't there for JJs version of events. I don't need to verify or argue any further the truth will come out soon enough. 

By: hungryhungrytrachtenberg (7/26/2016 8:54:39 AM)

Even if you have inside information, that information may only be part of the story or one individual's side of the story.  

I strongly encourage everyone to let the university and independent investigation conclude before rushing to any judgements or posting any potentially misleading information which could be incredibly harmful to the careers of hardworking staff in our athletics department.  

Depending on the outcomes of this investigation, I hope Herve considers deleting some of these threads that contain some wild accusations that could be very harmful in the years to come.  

By: hoopfan78 (7/26/2016 8:57:43 AM)

skittles i wasn't accusing you of being jj i was addressing both of you. 

Unfortunately i don't believe the average fan will ever know the "trueth", but i stand by my opinion that ML will not be on the plane to Japan.

sounds like we both have our sources that we trust heavily.  it comes down to which side of the story is true.  my opinion is that the members of the team last year will provide enough information to verify information. 

The part that JJ is dead wrong about however is Nero's involvement in the program over the past year. 

By: Hugh Jaynus (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:00:56 AM

 Herve needs to delete some anonymous accusations from some keyboard warriors on a blog with a population of 18 in case the Washington Post wants to quote Ziik or Long Suffering Fan in a professionally written article...

By: NewGWFan (510 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:04:20 AM

 

This story would jive with everything we have heard out of the ML camp. The junkies alluded to it, along with Feinstein, ML friends and family.  Lots of references to something happening behind the  senses that they can't disclose.  This would make a whole lot of sense as to why ML can't come forward or his associates and explain what's going on.  Would love to hear Patrick Nero side of things.  The way in which Feinstein explained that the article ended up at the post gives me great concern and makes me think something fishy is in play.  They did not take the story to the GW beat writers and did not present both sides of the story.

I think PN and the player went to the Post with the story. 

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:04:22 AM

Skittles has had a solid track record here. I am now hearing the same thing from presumably someone other than Skittles. Can't vouch for it entirely except for the part about PN not overseeing men's basketball. And I have to tell you that alone is so atypical in athletic departments as to at least raise questions as to why. 

By: Still Here (7/26/2016 9:07:45 AM)

Hoopsfan, you just said you know for a fact then made a list of points based on conjecture. Additionally one person made the point that the kid could have been having a hard time (maybe with lonergan) and kept asking to meet with Nero. Doesn't make it appropriate, but it doesn't sound like a fireable offense. Either way I find this all incredibly believable. I said before the article read like it was being framed just so by someone (maybe Nero based on the strange weigh in from his lawyer against lonergan) and this makes it seem like motive has been established. I will say though, as many people have noted, none of this means the lonergan story has to be false. Both stories can easily be true.

 

 

 

 

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:17:41 AM

Another thing the Post story got wrong I am told was why Ed Scott was so heavily involved. It wasn't because of ML's behavior, it was because of the reason in the second sentence of JJ's post. Ed Scott was there to oversee men's basketball. As to why, well other than JJ's post, I have no explanation. We will all find out soon the truth of all matters asserted but until then, unlike JJ, at least Skittles has a track record here. 

By: Tk (258 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:19:43 AM

i think it's a bit from column a, a bit from column b. Nero's been watching too much house of cards 

By: JJ (33 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:35:08 AM

To everyone. I am my own person and dont have any other names on this site. I rarely post or read periodically. I did post information last night as I have come to understand  that some part of the story was not told in the public. I totally agree that we need to be patient and let the external investigation occur and understand the results. This will take time. Like with any corporation, the university has documented all of this. They are not surprised by any of this. The external review must be performed legally as the school's reputation, careers and controls of the university need to be reviewed. If the school was not aware of this, they would have started an internal investigation first. The reason its an external investigation has a purpose which you can figure out on your own.  Understand why some may question my post because people dont have all the facts. But my question when I read the Post story, if everyone is anonymous and everyone involved ...looks like 6 people total...are not involved with the program anymore, who gains by this story? 

By: NJ Colonial (1,980 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:46:05 AM

Nice to see a grown-up post, Keith Greene, I agree with you.  Everybody needs to calm down.  If you really care about GW and the hoops program, stop jumping to conclusions.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:50:41 AM

Additional info (which is admittedly cannot be verified) which may support another part of this being a hatchet job and causing some confusion. It may be that current player alleged in the Post Story is now a former player and was at the time of publication (i.e. he was a current player at part of the timeframe discussed). Supposedly the writer has been working on this article for some time. If this is so, this is some really disingenuous stuff on the part of the Post labelling him now a current player.

By: JJ (33 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:50:55 AM

To everyone. I am my own person and dont have any other names on this site. I rarely post or read periodically. I did post information last night as I have come to understand  that some part of the story was not told in the public. I totally agree that we need to be patient and let the external investigation occur and understand the results. This will take time. Like with any corporation, the university has documented all of this. They are not surprised by any of this. The external review must be performed legally as the school's reputation, careers and controls of the university need to be reviewed. If the school was not aware of this, they would have started an internal investigation first. The reason its an external investigation has a purpose which you can figure out on your own.  Understand why some may question my post because people dont have all the facts. But my question when I read the Post story, if everyone is anonymous and everyone involved ...looks like 6 people total...are not involved with the program anymore, who gains by this story? 

By: Rich Maier (17 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:54:32 AM

hoopfan78 brings up a very god point. If as JJ's friend (not JJ) said Nero was having an inappropriate relationship with a player, why didnt GW fire Nero? Hoopfan78 is correct IMO that would open up a potential lawsuit. If that comes about the University is in big trouble.

I have no idea who is telling the truth.

By: Rich Maier (17 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:56:21 AM

that's good point not god point.

By: GW69 (7/26/2016 10:03:05 AM)

What is "real" is  subjective. What is "true" is objective. Right now 

all we have is what's real. Maybe we will find out what's true or 

maybe not.

By: hoopfan78 (7/26/2016 10:04:15 AM)

not trying to act as defense attorney or be defensive.  but what exactly does "in charge the basketball team" mean?  the AD is not in charge of any team.  The AD travelled with the team to almost every game, including for the thanksgiving tournament in NYC.  I would think if you were told to "stay away" you would not be traveling with the team to tournaments.

Also, why would ML give the AD practice tapes (leading to the alleged comment) if the AD wasn't "in charge" of the team.

The statement from the school states “The George Washington University is undertaking a Title IX review of allegations against men’s basketball coach Mike Lonergan,” I would think if the University had this information about the AD they would have used a more vague statement, instead of using ML's name.

 

By: Slayer (7/26/2016 10:07:22 AM)

Because the tapes comment was completely made up.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:08:03 AM

I don't know for sure Rich but maybe the University suspected but could not prove that something inappropriate was occurring. Maybe nothing was actually happening but it looked bad. So they took remedial steps to prevent the appearance of impropriety to make sure they did not get sued. The lawyer in me thinks that's a possibility. 

By: Free Quebec (6,340 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:09:40 AM

Rich,

That would depend on what the school found "inappropriate" to mean. If there was no evidence the relationship was sexual - just that he was meeting with a player a lot and having him over for dinner -  you could easily see the school saying to Nero, ok, you are creating the appearance of something untoward so we're going to tell you not to have unsupervised contact with this player or other players. 

I don't think there's any question that if they could prove there was a sexual relationship, he would have been fired, which leads me to believe that there were only accusations and no proof.  But note that JJ's (anonymous) accusation suggests they are looking into improper benefits which could be a tell that they can't prove the firable offense of a sexual relationship with a student in his charge.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:17:32 AM

hoopfan - there is something in between staying away which is an impossible standard for an AD and nothing especially where the facts might not be clear. You could have restricted private interactions (time, place, others present, etc.). None of us would know since no one was going to make this public. I know in one sexual harrassment case where it could not be determined definitively but there was an appearance of impropriety that a person was put on a plan where they were not allowed to have any private closed door meetings with any female staffers without another person being present.

By: InTheKnow (7/26/2016 10:18:12 AM)

Both sides of the story are true the post and what JJ writes. That's where it all started from Nero having the player over ML getting pissed at that and Nero getting offended at MLs accusations of Nero having a relationship. A situation that completely spiraled out of control instead of acting like men and figuring it out, they both decided to go at each other to get each other fired. However Ed Scott was placed with the team to monitor MLs behavior 

By: Rich Maier (17 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:31:24 AM

Bo and FQ, you should address JJ's friend. He is the one who said Nero had an inappropriate relationship not me. Let's have another thread in the meaning of inappropriate. Let the lawyers figure it out.

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:32:21 AM

Let me let you in a little secret, there are people who here post a lot and then they use alternate names to make shit up and firebomb the people who do post here a lot whose thoughts they don't like.

This story is so obviously patently false that to give it more oxygen is silly, as several have posted, if the story were true Nero would have been fired immediately.  Get a clue, and stop giving the firebombers alternate poster name Bullshitters an ounce of credibility.  

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:36:11 AM

IntheKnow - by whose authority was Ed Scott placed on team to monitor ML's behavior? The University gave ML a letter saying no further action was required in September 2015. And if JJ's post is true, PN was removed from overseeing men's basketball for 2015-16. Something does not add up. My information is that Ed Scott was assigned to oversee men's basketball for the athletic department not solely related to ML but rather to take over PN's responsibilities. 

By: Tuna Can (1,661 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:39:31 AM

Why do I think that this drama is going to replace Swamp People on the History Channel.

"CHOOT IT, CHOOT IT!!!!"

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:40:03 AM

To those of you who frequently get disgusted by the soap opera type atmosphere that sometimes takes place on this board....welcome.  This is sadly worse than anything you've ever read here.

Starting with Bo today.  Not a big deal in the overall scheme of things, but your posts on this matter have been perplexing.  First, you confirm your prior knowledge of the fact that Nero did not oversee the basketball team this past season, but failed to mention that here until now because you felt that this point had nothing to do with what we've been discussing?  Really?  The athletic director of a school without football, making men's basketball the dominant revenue producing sport for his department, has nothing to do with this particular sport, and you perceive this to have nothing to do with allegations that Lonergan made homophobic remarks at the athletic director's expense?  I obviously can't speak for you or determine your thought process, but it would seem highly improbable not to make some type of connection between these two things.  You do then go on to say that the Nero arrangement this past season was so atypical for any athletic department.  Yes.  Exactly.  All the more reason why this piece of information could have been revealed earlier (not that this was your obligation.  However, if you were The Washington Post, you might have found this nugget out in your research and reported it, unless you opted not to include it since it didn't quite fit the agenda.)

Bigfan...your point about the Debra Katz (sexual harassment attorney) quote was astute at the time and perhaps even far more germane now.  When I first read the article, I raised an eyebrow wondering why this quote was even included.  Despite claims over inappropriate remarks, it seemed a bit out of left field.

To everyone here or didn't or still hasn't gotten the message, I'll offer this.  Am proud of the folks who have kept their heads, realized that there could be facts or explanations that we have not seen or heard yet which might rectify much about what we've read in the Post.  Am proud of those who understand what "innocent until proven guilty" truly means, forget about in a courtroom, but in life.  And how failing to abide by this notion can in fact cause serious and needless damage to one's reputation and livelihood.

Am not at all proud of the folks who jumped to conclusions.  Who reacted without knowing the full story.  Who weighed in on who GW's next coach should be.  Who claimed that Lonergan has been damaged beyond repair.  Who have predicted that he'll never be able to effectively recruit again (or recruit at all if we are to believe some of you).  Who stated that there was no possible way that Mike could overcome this.

Has Lonergan now been exonerated?  Hardly.  But here's where we've gone from:

a) The Post article which resulted in critics (those with and some without agendas) wanting to tar and feather the coach.  Leaving even his defenders to acknowledge that this sounds very bad, and that Mike is a volatile guy who is capable of crossing lines, but that we need to let this play out.

b) Traces of support with some subtly indicating that a smoking gun might exist but can't be discussed yet.  OK, some hope for Lonergan perhaps but not a whole lot to go on yet.

c) MartiniBoy's account about the transgender insult being directed towards a player wearing bright pink sneakers.  Much more hope for Lonergan as context makes its way into the picture.

d) An allegation of sexual activity/inappropriate behavior between Nero and a player, along with an acknowledgement that Nero did not oversee the basketball team this past season, opens up the largest can of worms yet. 

The point of course is that there are at least two sides to every story.  The Post reported just one side and many here chose to believe it verbatim because how could all of these sources corroborate in this manner and have it not be the case?  And of course, even if the players and former staffer did not lie per se, we now know that there are possible circumstances and contextual situations which could readily explain why something might not be quite as it seems.

Again, I am happy to watch how things play out before drawing any conclusions, and would urge everyone here to do the same.  If that's just too hard for you to do, you may want to revert to this formula instead:

See which way The Dude is going and take the other side.

Bonus:  If Skittles has taken the opposite side of The Dude, double down on your wager.

 

By: InTheKnow (7/26/2016 10:41:17 AM)

he was placed there to oversee MLs behavior after people complained about him. Exactly why he's at every road game and sits right by the bench. 

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:44:35 AM

Dude, you are going to be wrong on this at least in part. JJ's second sentence is accurate from everything I have heard. The only debate is as to why this unprecedented action was taken and by whom? Skittles and JJ have told you why and by whom. We will see if their info is correct. Given Skittles track record here I would be very shocked if he/she was wrong.

By: hoopsfan78 (7/26/2016 10:49:39 AM)

The MV,

just one note, Debra Katz is not a defense attorney:

http://www.kmblegal.com/attorneys-and-staff/debra-katz

'"I am deeply committed to protecting the rights of individuals who have been victimized by discrimination, sexual harassment or have been mistreated because they have done the right thing — whether it be reporting issues affecting the public health and safety or objecting to illegal business practices. These individuals deserve tough, tenacious, and principled advocates. I work hard every day to be just that."

By: Dootie Bubble (1,850 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:56:25 AM

Does anyone believe Nero is shtupping one of the players?  I for one find that a pretty hard thing to believe.  Until there's a single credible allegation or shred of evidence it sounds like the kind of accusation a single guy in a position of power gets regularly.   

By: Dootie Bubble (1,850 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:58:17 AM

If Patrick Nero didn't oversee the men's team directly this season I've got another hypothesis. ML was under investigation. Threw PN under the bus. University created some distance during monitoring to see if things got better.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 11:09:31 AM

MV, I knew that PN did not oversee men's basketball and that was atypical but why would I have given it another thought until JJ's post? I thought it was due to a division of responsibilities and that he ultimately oversaw the whole department but, unlike past ADs, was not going to be involved with men's basketball on a day to day basis, meaning this was an operational decision. I was with both PN and ML in New York in April (NIT) and saw no signs of any animosity between the two. And neither man cared to share that with me if there was such animosity probably because each knows that I know the other. The Post article was solely about ML's conduct and did not mention anything related to PN other than the comments allegedly made. I guess I was so focused on the Post's hatchet job on ML that I never thought to think about the mirror image of the story.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 11:13:43 AM

Just to clarify the above post - by hatchet job I meant that the PN statements attributed to ML were not in fact said because they seemed to be so outrageous on their face. 

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/26/2016 11:39:02 AM

MV, you've taken the other side of nearly every prediction/assessment I've taken and been wrong on all of them on just about every thing I've typed here since I joined the board.  Otherwise, your post is pretty good, at least the part where you stick to clear headed analysis and stay clear of the personal mud slinging you are oddly so fond of yet seem to denounce!

Otherwise, I think on this false Nero story, I've typed my last sentence, its plain utter madeup nonsense until it comes from somewhere else than an agenda driven alternate poster name.  Sorry, I do put a little more stock in the WaPo than Jj, a little more stock in 6 GW program sources over an anonymous poster name/s.  As for Bo, there does seem be a pattern on the board of a big story and breaking and then after the fact you claim to have had previous knowledge of it to puff your Insider Bona Fides.   This isn't meant personally to anyone here, I haven't seen one example of a truly big scoop or any proof at all we have an insider, despite a few who claim that to be so.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 11:46:25 AM

I don't know what previous knowledge you are referring to Dude. I had no previous knowledge that this story was about to break, that ML was alleged to have said these things or that PN was previously accused of having an inappropriate relationship. I read the Post story just like you did. I had previous knowledge that PN was not overseeing men's basketball but thought it was for operational reasons. As I just explained above, why would that have had any relevancy here before now? 

However, unlike you, what I did do after the story broke was to start checking in with various University sources not named ML or PN to try and discern what the truth of this was instead of just pontificating about air.

By: Danjsport (1,195 posts) - 7/26/2016 12:07:26 PM

Did I miss something?  Did this story "break" or was it just posted on this message  board?  I'm not saying it's not true (I don't have any idea).  I'm just saying if we were criticizing the washington post for printing a "hatchet job" of a story because it was based on anonymous sources, are we to give this story immediate credence?

I don't know what truth there is to anything.  I'm disapointed that all of this is now out there a bout the school I went to for two men who, at least from the outside, appeared to  be good men that were achievng good things for GW.  To the extent that this story is true, I'm concerned.  I'm not quite sure what an "inappropriate relationship" means.  Was it dinner and visits thats houldn't have occured?  Was it sexual in nature?  Somewhere in between?  At minimum, it seems if a student was getting benefits, that could be an NCAA problem.  At maximum, there are lots of moral and ethical concerns (not to mention potential legal ones).  

I'm just sad.  

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/26/2016 12:10:58 PM

No, the answer to that is no.  Hasn't broken, just made up on anonymous niche message board.  I should take this moment to dispell our SEC 2018 Football GW program rumor as well, that also hasn't broken, so to speak

By: Remember Fort Myer (14 posts) - 7/26/2016 12:27:39 PM

"As Senior Associate Athletics Director at GW, Ed Scott serves as the sport administrator for men's basketball and women's lacrosse, while overseeing NCAA compliance, educational services, community and career services, student-athlete discipline and welfare, along with diversity and inclusion efforts."

Above is from the GW Athletics Staff Directory, on its website.  

Could not believe the size of the staff.  Is the entire administration at GW so bloated?  Is this why tuition is so high?

By: Still Here (7/26/2016 12:28:27 PM)

Strange, you don't trust anonymous sources anymore?

By: GW69 (7/26/2016 12:30:00 PM)

I'm not working today---so I'm getting a chance to read all the posts.

The only thing I've gleaned is that we don't have sufficient  info

to make sense of all this.Psychotic musing---"Where have all the

flowers gone".

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 12:33:18 PM

well danjsport - if we knew or had all the answers I doubt there would be almost 600 posts on this subject. I have parts of the story posted here but have not as of yet been able to check all the boxes. It is not patently false as Dude claims but also not completely confirmed. That is all.

By: Danjsport (1,195 posts) - 7/26/2016 12:53:25 PM

I just don't get why we're on here "smearing" one of our own (Nero) while bashing the post for "smearing" Lonergan. 

Maybe this is entirely true or partially true (or "half-lies" as skittles put it when the shoe was on the other foot).  Maybe this is a leak by the Lonergan side to take the heat off of him.  Maybe it's both.  But the fact of the matter, at least for me, is that I don't like seeing the program I root for dragged through the mud.  If either (or both) of these stories (Lonergan and Nero) are true, I think it's time to start over.  

If the Nero story is true, I'm not sure why he is still around, nor am I sure why the school hasn't reported violations to the NCAA.  But while not opining as to the truth of the story, I'm inclined to at least wish the person posting the story would attach a name to it--at least Kilgore did.

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/26/2016 1:09:25 PM

How to tell a real opinion or thought from BS agenda nonsense:

1) anyone who keeps claiming the WaPo story is anonymously sourced fall into the latter.

Its been repeatedly noted by many, that the 6 players/coach sources were not anonymous of course to WaPo, just at this juncture unknown to us.  

Contrast that with "Jj" of the gwhoops.com website.  Pretty easy to see what's going on here, an ML fan wants to distract you, that's all.

Might be an early day to hit the bottle! Surely the bulk of the fan base understands the distinction, frankly I think everyone does, but agenda driven poster or 2 wants to muddy the waters.  In the words of the Talking Heads, "same as it ever was"

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 1:36:14 PM

Dude ummm the Post article was and is anonymously sourced the people who matter - that is GW, its faculty, staff, students - unless you can tell us right now who spoke to the Post. (I swear the Dude can't be this dumb so he must say shit for effect). Sources are almost always known to the writer otherwise they wouldn't write the article. Does the Dude seriously think you can send an anonymous email to the Post and have an article written?

And of course the king of agendas is objecting to others perceived agendas ... pretty rich.

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/26/2016 1:47:38 PM

This story is sickening. If it shows anything, it is that issues, no matter what they are, need immediate resolution. 

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/26/2016 1:49:09 PM

And: has this "new information"appeared anywhere else? 

I sure would like ML to stay, and be exonerated. But, all this stuff makes it hard.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 1:54:56 PM

danjsport - I have been careful not to say anything that I don't have reason to believe to be true. This, far I have stated that the two things I was told was that Nero was not overseeing men's basketball and Ed Scott was not there to monitor ML but rather to take over PN's functions. How or why this came to be is the question. 

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 1:58:12 PM

ziik where else would you like it to appear? You do realize GW is a private institution with no obligation to make personnel records public? Undoubtedly, the Post did not ask about this aspect of the story because it had convinced itself it had the goods on ML.. So how or where would it appear assuming for the moment it is true?

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 2:03:21 PM

If there were a shred of truth to this Nero would have been long gone. Good try Mike & Co.

By: hoopfan78 (7/26/2016 2:13:25 PM)

I'm not sure that this will change anyone's mind in either direction, but interesting interview with Adam Kilgore on a Baltimore radio station.  (starts at 2:00 min mark

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/07/26/adam-kilgore-of-the-washington-post-on-the-situation-with-mike-lonergan-and-allegations-of-verbal-abuse/

By: Bballfan (7/26/2016 2:14:34 PM)

Hoopsfan78 - as for as your statement - "I know for a fact that there is no truth to this story at all.  In fact Nero was as involved as ever with the Basketball team and all other teams, you are wrong." 

You obviously do not know, since PN did not travel with the team at all this season.  He went to games and tournaments on his own, not with the team.  The difference between past years and this one was significant - so check your facts!

By: bballfan (7/26/2016 2:19:20 PM)

Poster you are an idiot - this is not high school.  The player is not underage.  Does every professor who has a relationship with an adult college student get fired?  We would need to hire a lot more staff.....

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 7/26/2016 2:37:48 PM

Dude, it is you who fails to understand distinctions.  Neither the WaPo story or JJ's account have been proven as facts.  You are inclined to believe the Post story because several people are presumably involved in corroborating it and the Post published it.  Neither makes the story definitively true.  JJ'story has only appeared here and as of now, it also can't be considered factual. it also can't be definitively determined to have been "made up" either. People are innocent until proven guilty.  Neither ML nor PN have been proven guilty yet.

By: ziik. (7/26/2016 2:39:53 PM)

Bo-If that story about the AD is deemed credible, well, the entire matter is different. Hell, GW starts looking like a minor league PennState, if the player is underage. (17). 

My guess,there are soap opera-worthy plots in  a lot of programs. SO far, the GW story looks uncontrollable. I hope I am wrong, and maybe I am, cause I am relying totally on hearsay.

 

I may unplug for a while. My head is struggling

By: LA Fan (1,525 posts) - 7/26/2016 2:54:50 PM

I don't think anyone on the basketball team is under 18.  So that hopefully isn't an issue.  But still, I happened to think about Penn State too.  

What happened?  And was there a cover-up?  That's what the attorney needs to find out.  Will we see a larger house-cleaning at GW because of this?

By: Bigfan (2,829 posts) - 7/26/2016 3:13:30 PM

Since this stupid story broke, I have been screaming about context and pointing to Debra Katz.

Here's the deal: I read the Post every day. Just a few days before the story and all the time, she is quoted in sexual harassment cases, like Roger Ailes. She is known in this field. Try a search of your own paper, Adam, if you don't read it.

Doesn't anyone find it odd that this weird quote was stuck in the middle of a story about Lonergan? Since it defends Nero, but the story is about Lonergan's ALLEGED shortcomings.. Did any editors read the article or the great Adam Kilgore read it back to himself? More on his bias in radio interview thread.

Like many here, was fine with both ML and Nero before this shitstorm.

Will say it again: the problem with this is there's no fucking CONTEXT in the article. No explanation for the transgender quote, although our own MartinBoy was able to come up with one.

 So we have been trying to nail jello to the wall. When you deal with a man's livelihood (now two men's livelihoods if they have the TRIGGER WARNING balls to address this issues, as well.

  Interesting thing mentioned by Bo is that the current player may be a former one. Can think of the perfect case. From what I have heard about journalists' roles, remembering to update things like this is a sacred responsibility (along with not writing a half-ass article posed as an investigative piece).

The reason to believe some form of this latest allegation is that it fits in the context. Yes, TRIGGER WARNING, can see ML or a number of us or anyone who is not in their 20s, saying sarcastically that someone is jerking off over tapes. That's all one could see.

Yes, ML is a tough coach. News flash.

But why would he say, if he did which has been denied by Bo and others, CAN'T BELIEVE I AM EVEN TYPING THIS, that Nero wanted to have sex with a player. Even if true, bad joke in PC era, certainly worse depending on Nero's personal life, and makes no sense.

But now, we have CONTEXT. Could be wrong context, but we have to fill in the blanks left in this Post piece of crap.

Not saying any of this is true, but it fits the alleged behavior and bad blood. Speaking of which, how the hell did the story not devote a chunk of the huge piece to the bad blood between Nero and ML and why. There are legitimate and normal reasons, also, as opposed to this horrible soap opera.

Remember what I posted about things and Washington and life being a gray area. Another thing, the article naively ignored. Sounds like both ML and Nero are going at each other and as someone here hypthesized it spun out of control.

All the allegations on both sides may be hyped on this.

The Post, naively bit into one side. Some point to Nero for furthering the agenda. Now, we are getting the other side. Like Jack Nicholson's character: "You want the truth. You can't handle the truth."

The truth may be in the middle. Neither as shocking or revelatory as the Post want us to believe with Lonergan, nor clear-cut with Nero.

Interestingly, Nero defenders or anti-Lonergan types here seem to confirm some type of relationship between Nero and a player. No reason to leap to any conclusions about that, but one can see how this starts the whole madness. Again, may be a gray area, with nothing actionable on both sides.

That's the thing. Could be something, with some kernels of reality on both sides that spiraled out of control, as a recent poster hypothesized.

Whole thing makes us sick to our collective stomachs. Because to put it delicately: we're fucked. This whole thing is out in the open, but in a form that raises more questions that answers.

Difference between posting anonymously here and posting rumors here is that this is an anonymous message board frequented regularly by a limited number of people. It is not a once-celebrated newspaper that is the major media outlet in the area. You don't see Sports Illustrated, Yahoo, wire services and media all over the world, quoting GWhoops.com

Though they should. Because we may, or may not have broken another part of this story.

The orginal article has left us like mushrooms: being kept in the dark and fed shit.

Everyone on both sides, please keep the information coming.

We are the ones who really care about this, apart from the parties and their families.  And we need CONTEXT and explanation for this bizarre string of events.

Please keep the info. coming.

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 3:21:07 PM

I have heard the same thing from numerous reliable sources.  Nero needs to be fired asap, but unfortunately he is playing the 'gay' card.  They can't touch him and we are stuck with him!  I wonder who he is going to take down next!??!  This is at least his fourth victim (the other three were not in the media because they left quietly), but look to see who he chased out of the athletic department.  They were all good people and wonderful representatives of our University. 

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 3:31:33 PM

Good post Bigfan

By: RUSerious (7/26/2016 3:36:11 PM)

All I can say is that Lonergan and his "supporters" must be feeling pretty desperate to come up with this low-life sleezeball "story". The real truth will be out soon enough.  

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 3:40:43 PM

oh it will RUSerious :) just not the "truth" you were hoping the post would be able to spot out without the real story coming out. Sorry to burst your bubble. Stay tuned my friend! 

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/26/2016 3:46:54 PM

Skittles--how long will this take? I really cannot stand Chinese water torture of any sort.

By: RUSerious (7/26/2016 3:48:43 PM)

Oh I can't wait skittles. By the way what happened to the contract extension you said was coming this summer?

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 3:55:19 PM

I'm not 100 percent sure Ziik but hopefully soon. RUSerious---obviously I was made aware of this happening on top of his contract is through 2020 season anyway. I never promised you anything at the time it was what I was told might happen this offseason. Plus I already answered you on the other thread 

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/26/2016 3:56:15 PM

This Nero thing feels invented to distract, pitting Nero vs ML, upping the anti of wrongdoing, to make ML's alleged indiscretions look tame in contrast.  

Was it 100% invented? Tough to prove a negative false but this whole thing smells like fiction, the complete opposite reaction I had to reading the WaPo story, sorry to say.  Wish both were total inventions.

By: hoopsfan78 (7/26/2016 3:57:36 PM)

SKittles, the request was for an extension through 2023 with a salary increase to bring in line with others in A-10.  That request was already denied.

By: RUSerious (7/26/2016 4:01:16 PM)

Thank you for that info hoopsfan78. 

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 4:01:23 PM

Thanks hoopsfan78 I can't verify it at this time I never received any new details not really asked past the initial post I made on it so I'll take your word for it

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 4:02:21 PM

You have it backwards the dude but it's ok 

By: Danjsport (1,195 posts) - 7/26/2016 4:05:14 PM

My question is, why is it being "leaked" here, and not to a newspaper, blog, etc?

By: Hugh Jaynus (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 4:09:24 PM

Good question Danjsports. A bunch of anonymous posters leaking information, shocked the post hasnt picked this up. Someone send Kilgore the link!

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 4:25:38 PM

I am promising you that some posters here know more about what is going on then Kilgore. Let's leave it at that for now.

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/26/2016 4:47:26 PM

I gather, after the first bizarro headlines, no national press cares about GW basketball.

By: Bballfan (7/26/2016 4:48:26 PM)

Danjsport - Maybe this never came out last year because the parties involved had more class and did not feel it was appropriate to put it out for public consumption.  The University handled it - done deal. 

I believe someone was not happy with the outcome and has decided to try and stir things up and destroy another person’s reputation and livelihood – not so classy.  It would not take much to get a disgruntled former player or two to agree to say something anonymously.

By: Bigfan (2,829 posts) - 7/26/2016 4:55:36 PM

Kilgore doesn't want to know.

How in the world could you legitimately report this story and not get a whiff of the undertone of any of this going on? Particularly with the bizarre Nero lawyer comment.

If it strikes a casual reader as odd, why wouldn't it strike the person typing it and the people editing the story?

 Seems, outside of such spectacular incompetence that it would boggle that mind, like there can be only two answers:1) you didn't do enough reporting and relied on anonymous sources with an agenda  2) You knew or had a good inkling you didn't follow up on, but didn't want to get into it because it would ruin the narrative, which is studded with PC buzzwords for maximum damage.

Like the UVA. Rolling Stone article, nothing is included that doesn't fit the narrative. This is clear from Kilgore's radio interview, as well as the article. It's all about narrative.

Not saying anonymous comments are a fabric and pretty sure they are not, though perhaps cleaned up a bit.

But the attitude is same: Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

 

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/26/2016 4:58:54 PM

Has the Post mentioned any on the record response from GW? If not, that is strange.

By: Bballfan (7/26/2016 5:03:18 PM)

No university will comment on personnel actions - GW will not and should not respond to the Post. 

By: Hoopfan78 (7/26/2016 5:05:57 PM)

Ziik,  the post reported the press release from GW as well as the quotes from the 3 players that cam out supporting ML. 

Kilgore also mentioned both in his radio interview.

no other on the record comments have been made, outside of a few facebook messages and the posting of the previous investigation letter by ML.

By: Rich Maier (17 posts) - 7/26/2016 5:15:50 PM

Poster(s), I enjoy your posts. Today at 7:03am you said JJ's story was untrue, and you'll be glad when Lonergan. Then at 2:03pm you said if there was a shred of truth of this Nero would be gone. Then at 3:21pm you said you've heard all these things from numerous sources, and Nero is playing the 'gay card'. Why the sudden drastic change in your views? Perhaps we have more than one 'poster'. But that couldn't happen here. Obviously it's simply changing your mind. Just curious.

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 5:18:44 PM

RIch, there are several different "posters" here

By: Rich Maier (17 posts) - 7/26/2016 5:41:31 PM

Poster,  I'm guessing you are the 7:03am and 2:03pm poster.

By: Skittles (178 posts) - 7/26/2016 5:51:42 PM

Nero did not travel with the team at all in 2015-16.  He went to games on his own and was not allowed to have any contact with Larsen or any player.  Ed Scott was sports administrator.  Larsen had his best season and the team had one of the best seasons in school history.  28 wins and 3 players made the A10 AllAcademic team.  No issues at all and everyone graduated as always with ML.  After the season Nero started meeting privately with players again in his office.  Lonergan again went to the powers to be to protect his players from inappropriate relationships.  He never mentioned the word sex to the school.  He never discussed his concerns about the AD to his players.  The Post article was planted.  Figure it out. Contract is through 20-21 season.  5 more years.  The contract extension didn't happen because Nero is still the AD-for now. Where is Karen Ercole? Why did Jason Wilson leave to be AD at a local high school when he was a rising star in athletics administration? That's all for now.

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 7/26/2016 5:55:46 PM

Skittles, it's kind of hard not to notice that Kevin Larsen was singled out as the only player mentioned in your post.

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 7/26/2016 6:01:13 PM

Fascinating that the so-called "made up" story now has a real player mentioned, as well as two additional administrators mentioned by name.  Still not drawing any final conclusions but it is worth noting that aside from the names Nero and Lonergan, these are the first names mentioned pertaining to this whole mess.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 6:02:22 PM

So Skittles based on your knowledge of things at the end of this do you believe we will be looking for a new AD or is this at all salvageable through some sort of mediation between ML and PN? In other words in your opinion is this at the point of no return (I would think so if it turns out the story was planted by PN)? 

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 7/26/2016 6:02:46 PM

Doesn't it sound like a stronger case when real names are used as opposed to anonymous sources?

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 6:08:30 PM

Skittles there are no words for what a disgusting human being you are for spreading such lies. I truly hope that what the investigators find is made public. 

By: Igor... Not Yegor (291 posts) - 7/26/2016 6:18:22 PM

By: Bballfan (7/26/2016 6:20:32 PM)

Poster - stop with the personal attacks. You have no more reason to doubt Skittles than believe the post.  I wish I could see your face when the truth comes out.  

Just because those in ML's camp who knew about this didn't discuss it on the board or in the Post, doesn't mean it's not true.  I believe the only reason it is coming out at all is because PN went after ML - at least it is what I believe.  

By: Bballfan (7/26/2016 6:21:57 PM)

Poster - stop with the personal attacks. You have no more reason to doubt Skittles than believe the post.  I wish I could see your face when the truth comes out.  

Just because those in ML's camp who knew about this didn't discuss it on the board or in the Post, doesn't mean it's not true.  I believe the only reason it is coming out at all is because PN went after ML - at least it is what I believe.  

By: Hoopfan78 (7/26/2016 6:32:25 PM)

Bballfan,

personal attacks are not good and i don't want to speak for 'poster', but he was most likely speaking to the fact that skittles dropped a few names.  that isn't fair to the player or anyone else in this story.  

i think skittles has made many points including at that post that prove whatever point he is trying to make without using the name.  

By: Bballfan (7/26/2016 6:36:27 PM)

Poster - stop with the personal attacks. You have no more reason to doubt Skittles than believe the post.  I wish I could see your face when the truth comes out.  

Just because those in ML's camp who knew about this didn't discuss it on the board or in the Post, doesn't mean it's not true.  I believe the only reason it is coming out at all is because PN went after ML - at least it is what I believe.  

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 6:56:35 PM

I can corroborate "Skittles'" story from 5:51pm. I learned it in May, from someone in athletics, close to the "story," (I was told the same player's ID). I can't say with certainty that the underlying facts are true, of course, but I was told the same things, months ago. I expected the Post story to be about PN's behaviour, not ML's. I do believe Skittles'/ my friend/ that the underlying facts are true, but that's not the point.

I can also corroborate the second "Poster" story (about the "Gay card" - a deplorable term - but the one people have used). Tyranny and high turnover have been poorly-kept secrets for years. 

I can also verify the Ed-Scott-travel reason not being in response to anything regarding ML.

PN is publicly boastful about how close he is to many players -- on a personal level. That closeness does make many people uncomfortable. I was not stunned to hear the story in May, because of the questionable behaviours PN has demonstrated or discussed in the past. The quote about the tapes in the Post seemed consistent with the story I knew. 

If Jack K. had carried on with female athletes, the behaviours would have been equally questionable. Sexuality has not been the crux of the issue; an individual in power engaging young people has been. It was unfortunate to see the University and ML and others painted has homophobic ... in reality, gay versus straight isn't part of the equation at all.

I hope Skittles is right about exoneration being public soon... 

By: Bballfan (7/26/2016 6:57:59 PM)

Poster - stop with the personal attacks. You have no more reason to doubt Skittles than believe the post.  I wish I could see your face when the truth comes out.  

Just because those in ML's camp who knew about this didn't discuss it on the board or in the Post, doesn't mean it's not true.  I believe the only reason it is coming out at all is because PN went after ML - at least it is what I believe.  

By: Free Quebec (6,340 posts) - 7/26/2016 6:59:26 PM

Rich, you asked a question and I gave you an answer directly. Not sure why you told me to address to JJ's friend, when I was responding directly to your question.

The anonymous poster, GTFO with your "gay card" stuff.   That's gay-baiting at its worst. Stick to facts, not appeals to bias.

 

By: Bballfan (7/26/2016 7:00:47 PM)

Poster - stop with the personal attacks. You have no more reason to doubt Skittles than believe the post.  I wish I could see your face when the truth comes out.  

Just because those in ML's camp who knew about this didn't discuss it on the board or in the Post, doesn't mean it's not true.  I believe the only reason it is coming out at all is because PN went after ML - at least it is what I believe.  

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:08:37 PM

If I'm Kilgore, I am now trembling with fear that while I was myopically focused on the sailboat, the Titanic may have sailed by unnoticed.

By: Bballfan (7/26/2016 7:11:23 PM)

I have no idea why my post keeps repeating!  I apologize.  I only posted one time I swear!

By: Hoopfan78 (7/26/2016 7:16:37 PM)

so we have all these theories and stories from sources.  

With that we are then expected to believe that 5 players (including at least 1 still on the team), conspired to plant this story with the post.  to what end?

Also, for those who also think that Nero "planted" this with the post.  He gains nothing by this story.  Also, Kilgore (who you don't trust/believe i get it) included in the article and in radio inteterview that the player who's complaint was forwarded to title IX officer followed up with the officer and when no action was taken he (the player) aproached the post.  

no matter the outcome and who's truth is the actual truth reality really is stranger than fiction at GW Athletics these days.  Not good for anyone.

By: Bballfan (7/26/2016 7:18:16 PM)

I have no idea why my post keeps repeating!  I apologize.  I only posted one time I swear!

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:18:32 PM

I agree it's offensive, hence "deplorable". I quoted him/her. I specially said sexual preference was not the issue.

The point he/she made about being "stuck," is a common complaint, though -- turnover is very high. If that happened where you work, wouldn't someone look at your manager?

I stated that I could verify what I have seen or heard personally regarding every rumour (and they are just rumours) I've read here. I listed each rumour and ticked off that Yes, I am another who has been told the same. 

Believe it or don't. 

I don't work for GW or the Post, so I havs to take Skittles' word for it that everything will be made public soon and everyone can go back to complaining about missed free throws. 

By: Hugh Jaynus (5 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:19:59 PM

Or in some peoples case, poor recruiting

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:34:28 PM

Hoopfan78, you are wrong when you say Nero would gain nothing from planting the story. He would gain everything - the basis for the firing of ML - who if you believe many different reports had posed a threat to ML by outing him to the University for certain transgressions. So you are going to have a hard time convincing anyone that there wasn't any motive here. But just because someone had a possible motive doesn't mean they acted on it. Hopefully, the investigation will determine whether or not that was the case.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:36:26 PM

that should have been "threat to PN" (not ML)

By: BC (1,645 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:37:46 PM

found in a tweet on A10 Talk:

Colonial Army@GWColonialArmy

Statement regarding recent news about our men's basketball team and the department of athletics:

By: Hoopfan78 (7/26/2016 7:39:00 PM)

ok Bo, but you would hope that if that were the case any compitent investigator would figure out what really went on fast.  

The main point i was trying to make is what could possibly motivate the 5 players?  Especially the 1 player who initiated the initial review and took the story to the post.  If for arguments sake you don't believe a player initiated the story with the post he still co-opperated and provided the quotes.  People have attempted to explain away everything, but i have yet to hear an explanation for this.  

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:41:47 PM

Gay card is a deplorable term but the whole concept of sexuality was introduced by the Post article. So if it turns out that ML did not make the statements, it is apparent that someone (PN, player or writer) tried to use one of the four deadly sins (anti-LGBTQ, racism, sexual harassment and physical abuse) to bludgeon someone in a very public way. 

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:48:41 PM

I think the explanation is easy hoopfan78, the question is whether it is accurate. The story of abuse is like a magnet. If you believe that ML didn't treat you fairly you can jump on the grievance train especially in a setting which you don't have to go under oath. Who directed the Post to only these 5 players? Why were the players in support of ML not contacted for balance? I am telling you basketball is a sick sport right now. Parents and players so out of control. The stuff that is said these days is mind-boggling. The venom at those who "ruined" their son's chance at the NBA is downright scary. I promise one day you will be reading about a coach gunned down by a disgruntled player or parent. It is only a matter of time unfortunately. I could get five disgruntled players to tell you that the sun rises in the West if it would suit their position.

By: Formerly Senioritis (30 posts) - 7/26/2016 7:51:46 PM

I just talked to one of the players who was interviewed today. The questions were all ML-focused. No PN questions at all. That tells you something. (well it tells the sane posters something).

By: Hoopfan78 (7/26/2016 7:56:47 PM)

i'm just not sure how making those comments about ML with at least 1 of the 5 giving the worst of the quotes and at least 1 other saying they were true.  improve any of the 5 players positions.  

I agree with what you say about parents, but not sure how that applies here.  

Also, since the bulk of the story focused on 2015-2016 it makes sense that he wouldn't have seeked comment from mo or Isaih.  I obviously don't know if he tried to contact Pato, and others from the past two seasons haven't commented publically.  We have no way of knowing how many players were contacted and how many returned calls/emails.

But i keep going back to the 5 who spoke, and the one who felt the need to go to the post to begin with.   none of the 3 or 4 who are no longer with the program benefit greatly from burning down the house on the way out the door.  

By: Rich Maier (17 posts) - 7/26/2016 8:07:21 PM

Bo, what did the reports, you mentioned, mean that ML was a threat to PN 'by outing him to the University for certain transgressions'. What transgressions that's a large category. 

Let's get the truth and end this.

By: Tim4 (821 posts) - 7/26/2016 8:18:01 PM

i only got a third of the way through this thread and I am disgusted by the way people are treating Nero.

Would these types of accusations happen to a straight AD? That this slander can happen at GW, as gay friendly a school as exists, is sickening. 

Let the facts play out. These people have families. 

 

By: Rich Maier (17 posts) - 7/26/2016 8:28:38 PM

FQ, sorry for the confusion. Referred you to JJ's post as he had a lot more to say on the matter than me. Almost everyone here, myself included, discusses 'inappropriate' actions when in fact no one knows what that means. Happy to see you return unfortunately under these circumstances.

By: dmvpiranha (7/26/2016 8:41:42 PM)

This is starting to sound like some sort of Scooby Doo mystery. I can only imagine that whoever is found to be guilty will say "I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for the meddling posters at gwhoops"

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 8:55:20 PM

Rich, if you read the reports by Skittles and JJ to name two here, ML went to the Administration over concerns that PN had acted inappropriately. There was action taken against PN that apparently resulted in his losing the ability to oversee the men's basketball program. Now if you were PN would you be happy about that?

By: Bigfan (2,829 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:01:38 PM

Why wouldn ' t Armwood be relevant.? Who knows when former players were from. One of the many things left out of the article.

A picture is emerging. One may be right. One may be wrong. Most likely a feud that got out of hand and some things on both sides. Lonergan may be tough,but not necessarily abusive. Nero may have had some really bad oersonal decision,partcularly optically,but no one is saying where it went.

But both in what has been posted here and reading between the lines of some both overt and unwitting confirmations.,there are definitely two sides here,not Kilgore's narrative-driven one dimensional,unprofessional piece.

What a soap opera nightmare. Like a five day nightmare. Each and every one of us has  to be thinking hope this is all just a bad dream. What's next? JT Sr.  winning the presidency on a third party platform of never playing GW? With Martelli elected Vice President? 

Want to use a phrase describing the situation,which rhymes with busterbuck,but really afraid it would be misinterpreted. 

Just hearing one side is wrong.

Please keep explanations and details coming. 

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:08:47 PM

Tim4 but it's ok to label ML a homophobic bigot???? The concept of sexuality was not introduced by ML or anyone here. It was introduced by the Washington Post article. We should not lose track of that and once out there it has become an aspect of this story. When the truth is known it is entirely possible that it was ML rather than PN who was slandered. Personally, I could give a crap about PN's sexuality. I do give a crap if as alleged by some here, he acted inappropriately with a student and that would be true if it was male-male, female-female, male-female, or female-male. Being gay does not mean you should be slandered for it but being gay is also not a defense tor slandering others, gay or straight. Let the facts speak to this.

By: Free Quebec (6,340 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:08:53 PM

Bo, the Post didn't introduce sexuality.   It introduced homophobia.   Not the same thing.  Don't conflate them.

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:12:49 PM

The Nero story seems like is a total invention, I'm amazed some of you fall for such a blatant distraction.  For all you know someone is just F'ing with you.  Or they want to distract from the ML thing.  Either way, it reads like utter concocted BS.  The ML story MIGHT be utter BS, but at least there's some things which suggest it might be true, this Nero thing is all just some guy coming on here and typing what reads like a total invention.

By: NewGWFan (510 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:14:29 PM

If PN was removed from overseeing the men's basketball program as people have mentioned why is this the first we are hearing of this?  I'm not saying it isn't true just would like to hear the official reason why Ed Scott was tasked with following the program. I think depending on who he was tasked with overseeing and why it would help give context about who's in the wrong.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:19:09 PM

FQ, by definition, homophobia describes bigotry or irrational fear or aversion towards homosexuals, correct? So sexuality unfortunately is very much part of this story by implication. 

By: Hoopfan78 (7/26/2016 9:19:10 PM)

Sorry, i didn't mean to say he didn't matter.  I was trying to say that the story was speaking to the 2015-2016 season.  I whole hartedly agree that Kilgore should have reach out to Pato and should have included his positive comments if they were received.  

Since today's post has largely focused on PN; i just want to point out a few things again.

Those who are now claiming that all this occured with PN, did you also know that ML was investegated by the Univeristy after the 2014-2015 season?  Most where not aware of that until the documents were posted by ML.  Now if you were ML would you be happy about that?

When the University requested practice tapes (which may or may not have lead to the quote in the article), would you have been happy about that if you were ML? (he was apparently livid)

When what i had hearrd called by others during the season a "baby sitter" was assigned to attend practices and road games would ML have been happy about that?  

I think ML and PN may have both dropped the ball by not speaking with the reporter.  It appears that if what those who are supporting ML are correct then he could have just as easily gone off the record, said "are you nuts?  listen, the real story is this..."... 

the once thing we might be able to all agree on is that we hope the report is complete and transparent, and that no matter the outcome we can move past this and continue building the program.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:25:52 PM

New GWFan the reason you are first hearing about it now is that nobody outside probably the inner core of the athletic department knew a reason other than it was operational in nature. So nobody including me thought twice about it. For all I knew PN didn't want to travel this year. This was tightly held information as it should be. If only other information was as tightly held we wouldn't be dealing in a very public way with this sordid mess which has damaged everyone involved who has been publicly identified meaning both PN and ML..

By: NewGWFan (510 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:35:44 PM

I was at the UMASS game and PN was definitely in attendance.

By: bobo (3,178 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:38:33 PM

Not sure I understand Tim's complaint against this board's supposed anti-gay treatment of Nero. Some said that if Nero engaged in such a relationship with a player, Nero should be fired. But if Nero had an inappropriate relationship with a female athlete, Nero should be fired for that too. I think it's a bogus accusation from Tim here.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:39:09 PM

hoopfan - You are right except for one thing - ML definitely didn't go to the Post with this story. I think we can all agree on that.

The problem is the way forward is not clear here and will depend largely on the established facts. But you are likely to not have much established to a certainty absent an admission. It will be a he said-she said unless there are hidden tapes. As I have said all along, how can ML possibly prove a negative to everyone's satisfaction? Same for PN for that matter. I fear nobody is going to be declared a winner and we are all going to be declared losers waking up to find out that the program self-immolated.

Maybe it's me but this program is very frustrating to support. Everytime we are on the precipe of something pretty good, bad things happen, whether by design or just bad luck. Damn frustrating no matter how you view what went down here. I have spent way too much time here trying to apply my legal skills to all the different allegations presented here and elsewhere. In the end, it won't matter what I think or you think but what the investigators think. All that is going on here is a battle for the hearts and minds of the GW faithful - all 25 of us. I really wish this was some kind of bad dream.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:43:58 PM

One other point and I hate to add complication to an already contentious and fractured GWHoops board but bear in mind that there are coaches who are snakes and would love to see ML lose his job so that they or their buddy might get a shot. So don't discount the fact that there may be some pot stirrers here hoping for that outcome.

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:49:52 PM

Bo, your last post smacks of paranoia. Aside from that, you are a loyal friend. Good luck.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:55:11 PM

Not paranois ziik. I got a few calls in the last few days asking me if I knew what was going to happen to ML and whether I thought GW would go in-house or do a search if he was removed. Knowing one of these guys, he wasn't asking for his health or genuine concern for ML. 

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/26/2016 9:59:49 PM

Stay loyal

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:02:16 PM

Recall last year on about this date, someone posted a GW starter had suffered a season ending injury which led to 3 days of speculation?  Doesn't take much to fool some of you here. Amazing since I'm pretty sure nearly 100% of us were admitted to attend a top 50 University.

By: Rich Maier (17 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:08:22 PM

Does anyone here know if Nero has ever been investigated by the University for any reason? 

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:35:40 PM

What University is that Dude? GW ranked 57 is latest US News and World Report. It was lower when you attended but still perplexing how you got in lol.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:37:22 PM

Rich, well I am not privy to PN's personnel file but if he was indeed removed from overseeing the men's team then I assume he was investigated by someone. That wouldn't happen by accident and would not be in the control of ML..

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 10:46:17 PM

No doubt ziik. There had better be film with seven camera angles before I will believe that ML did all the things alleged in the Post lol. He is a smart guy and in my opinion no way does he expose himself like that. You just have to go with your gut sometimes on these things. 

By: FredD (598 posts) - 7/26/2016 11:07:54 PM

BO I don't agree with about 50% of your asserssions/points but you nailed it with regards to the problems with proving a negative and the likelihood of a blown program 20 loss seasons AND if PN is gone the whole AD is in big trouble 

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/26/2016 11:12:23 PM

Bo, stick to propaganda, your jokes are awful, but hey, 200 posts on a nothing toping by you/a fellow ML propagandist, but I suspect you, I find it hard to believe we have 2 humans doing that on a niche board with about a dozen to 2 or so steady posters.

School was top 50 when I attended it, top 20 Law School from which I gradated too, although that too has dropped in recent years.  Joke though, super lame, so is spending so much of your life for 15 years trying to propagandize about 16 people on a website.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/26/2016 11:21:13 PM

Dude other than this topic here I don't think anyone would think I spend a fraction of the time you do here so go figure. Also I don't have this compulsive need to repeat myself over and over again. But it just dawned on me how you got in to GW. You sent in several applications with alternative data on the theory one might slip through. Seems that is your modus operandi here.

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/27/2016 9:46:20 AM

Truth is, my guilty pleasure is taking stances on things I know nothing about. I speak blindly guys, that's my thing.

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 7/27/2016 10:05:45 AM

That has been, is, and will always be duly noted.

By: Tim4 (821 posts) - 7/27/2016 10:25:52 AM

My point is - it's 2016 and a gay man who is being tarred is automatically accused of being a deviant? This is how gay men got fired from jobs in the 1980s when people who didn't like them would make false accusations about "inappropriate" behavior. 

The amount of you who are going along with this with absolutely no evidence is stunning. None of the players in the story had a single negative thing to say about Patrick. 

It remains to be seen what is true and what is not but I think it would be reasonable to refrain from perpetuating negative stereotypes and innuendo with no evidence until the facts are public. 

 

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/27/2016 10:40:22 AM

Tim4 what I'm still not understanding is why you think the Post story is credible and Skittles/JJ/Others are de facto not and therefore are gay bashing. I don't know the entire truth but I don't see how you accept one side and reject the other out of hand because both are anonymously sourced. That's sort of the point isn't it? We got into this whole mess because of a comnpletely anonymously sourced article. I am certainly not willing to convict ML based upon it and likewise I have been cautious to only agree with the parts of the PN story I can verify (which are not directly the parts you object to but they leave open the possibility). Plus, the issue is inappropriate behavior whether gay or straight. I doubt you write what you have (perpetuating negative stereotypes) if we were talking about the women's team and a male AD was alleged to have engaged in an inappropriate relationship with a female. 

Finally, the Post article was not about PN so its doubtful the players were even asked about him. Their silence cannot be taken as anything other than they weren't asked.

I do agree that we should let the facts come out but you are doing nothing different than anyone else here - shading the story towards your opinion of what transpired.

By: GW69 (7/27/2016 10:41:31 AM)

Thank you Tim4.We shall see.Need more info.Why can't we all get along?

 

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 7/27/2016 11:02:03 AM

Tim4, I don't feel like very many have "convicted" Nero at this point in time.  Any negativity being expressed here is conditional upon Pat having invited a specific player multiple times to his home and engaged in inappropriate behavior.  Very few are saying "this is what happened"; they are saying "if this is what happened..."  Am I off-base?

By: GW69 (7/27/2016 11:11:33 AM)

Very chose call MV.Appears that ALMOST by definition if you 

support ML,PN must be a culprit and ,of course , the opposite 

has been proffered.

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/27/2016 11:11:36 AM

Bo knows, the Post article said the players found the comments by Lonergan about Nero "shocking and offensive, with no basis in reality" so I guess they were asked. 

By: GW69 (7/27/2016 11:13:18 AM)

"Close"

By: Bballfan (7/27/2016 11:27:52 AM)

PN's sexual preference is not what is at issue - any AD who is meeting with players one on one, and having them come to his personal residence - regardless of whether they are men or women, it is inappropriate.  There are resources available through the University to handle issues players may be having - personal, family, with the coaching staff, financial, etc..  Those people are trained professionals.  So for me - there is absolutely no reason an AD should have a player or student of any kind, at his or her personal residence alone.  End of story.

By: Tim4 (821 posts) - 7/27/2016 11:28:35 AM

Bo - Yes I hold more credible what a reporter at a national media outlet reported with 5 sources. I work with reporters all the time. Its not to say they don't get it wrong. But an outlet like the post has editors who know who these sources are and to the best of their ability they have confirmed veracity.  

I find that far more credible than what some anonymous dude on a message board says. I will reserve judgment on ML but I don't think that is an unfair assessment of what is currently out there. 

MV - No I'm not saying many have convicted him - though some have, others indicated they hoped the problem wsa with PN not ML, and still others have seemed to accept the possibility at face value. All of those responses in my view reflect a very dangerous attitude towards gay men that some random anonymous person can post a comment saying they are a deviant that preys on young men. This is a tactic that has been used for decades to attack and undermine gay men. I think it should be viewed with extreme skepticism (and frankly hostility) unless there is actual evidence presented 

 

 

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/27/2016 11:40:21 AM

Reporters look for stories and sources, check them out, and, if they have confirming, seemingly credible source, they go to print. That process does not ensure that the publiched story is the truth, or even factual. 

Legal trials have their own ways to prove guilt. They do not always prove what actually happened, just the results of what happened,

The Post story looks like truthiness, at its best.worst. Heck, it reads like substantiated gossip. Not much more. 

Tim, you are one of the all time best posters here. I am not attempting to argue with you on this. But, it is just that this story is a mess.

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/27/2016 11:43:06 AM

Posting under others names here could bring down the whole board, grow up and grow a pair of testicles, write under your own chosen name and no others.  

As to the matter at hand, there does seem to be a concerted effort to protect ML by inventing a Nero story and making Nero into ....well y'all should have figured that out by now I would hope without further explanation.

By: GayWHoops (7/27/2016 11:54:03 AM)

Homophobia is outing someone who doesn't want to be outed.

Homophobia is assuming that a gay administrator meeting with a student-athlete is automatically inappropriate.

Homophobia is equating GW's situation to Penn State's. Homosexuality is not related to pedophilia in any way, shape or form.

Homophobia is spreading unsubstantiated rumors that a gay administrator is having sex with a student-athlete.

Homophobia is telling student-athletes that the big scary gay administrator is jerking off to your practice tapes.

Stupid is conducting an investigation on a public basketball forum full of asshats.

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 7/27/2016 11:56:56 AM

Tim4, fair response but I'm just not sure how relevant it is to what we are witnessing here.  I'll go back to speaking just for myself by conveying the same sentiment as LSF did...if I have to pick sides as to who I would like to see exonerated (IF only ML or PN could be but not both) short of definitive proof presenting itself, I'm picking ML solely because his worth to the men's basketball program is substantially greater than Pat Nero's worth.  This is not at all to suggest that Pat doesn't do a great job.  However, it is to suggest that my feelings are 100% basketball related and have absolutely nothing to do with anyone's sexual orientation.

By: GayWHoops (7/27/2016 12:01:08 PM)

You're right, MV- it's much easier to throw the big scary gay administrator under the bus and the only thing any one here really cares about is wins and losses 🙄

By: RUSerious (7/27/2016 12:03:47 PM)

Thank you GayWHoops.

By: thinker (2,825 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:03:49 PM

What's most stunning to me is that ML and posters who are clearly his supporters are coordinating his legal and PR defense at it were here on GWHoops.

The more things that get leaked on behalf of ML, frankly makes him look more guilty of something, in my eyes.

If ML is completely innocent of anything and this is all a smear by the Post and it's somehow being ochestrated by "creepy innappropriate" Nero, then ML should REALLY be VERY quiet and let the investigation prove him innocent if he knows he is innocent.

This is all extremely unseemly.

By: Tim4 (821 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:07:34 PM

Ziik - Thanks for the kind words, wish I could post more often. Have benefit of time on my hands at the moment :) 

I hear what you are saying though I stand by my point that the multiple-sourced, edited, national news outlet at this point has more credibility than a person named "Skittles" on an internet message board. :) 

By: Tim4 (821 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:08:15 PM

Bingo - Thinker 

By: alum9999 (7/27/2016 12:08:45 PM)

I just wish the 5 anons would be revealed so the context will be FORCED to emerge as the rest of the players can confirm/deny the context in which things occurred/said.

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:15:16 PM

GayWHoops, here is precisely what I wrote:

..if I have to pick sides as to who I would like to see exonerated (IF only ML or PN could be but not both) short of definitive proof presenting itself, I'm picking ML solely because his worth to the men's basketball program is substantially greater than Pat Nero's worth.  This is not at all to suggest that Pat doesn't do a great job. 

Did you miss the words "short of definitive proof presenting itself", or did you simply choose to ignore these words? What that means is that if it can be proven that one man has been victimized here and the other is proven to be guilty of something, then this is my preferred outcome.  Regardless of who the guilty party and who the victim may be.

So, if it still sounds like I'm throwing anyone under a bus, then I'm left to conclude that maybe you have some sort of agenda.  Based on your poster name alone, that notion may not be too far off.

 

By: GayWHoops (7/27/2016 12:16:09 PM)

Yes alum9999- let's force the anonymous players and their inapproriate relationships with the big gay boogie man to be subjected to this board's, ML's, and the junkie's obvious homophobia

By: GayWHoops (7/27/2016 12:18:03 PM)

MV- I hear you loud and clear. You prefer the scary gay boogie man to go down for this and the nice family man with kids to get his name cleared.

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:21:21 PM

I was going to say something significant on the issue then I remembered I never do that so I am just going to call everyone else ignorant for what they think. You're ignorant

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:25:55 PM

There's something happening here
But what it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking' their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

What a field day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly saying, "hooray for our side"

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away

We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Now, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

"

 

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:27:32 PM

I don't blame the kids (former and CURRENT) who went to the press for preferring to stay anonymous. Look at how Nero has been treated here and he hasn't even uttered a word.  They would have been torn to shreds, although I doubt they care what a bunch of clowns on a message board think.

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:29:12 PM

gaywhoops-- they all are manipulated by the system. That does not mean they need special manipulation for any person's individual satisfaction. I would guess the university has rules in place to protect students against inappropriate exploitation of any intimate sort, no matter the sexual practices involved, if we get to that point. 

So far, this thing looks like it may be a power play, with the press being used as a tool. I think that is what ia troubling. 

 

 

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:31:14 PM

Just stop it.  Noobdy on thie board is gay bashing.  Nobody is discriminating against anyone based upon sexual orientation.   There are essentially 2 main issues that warrant investigationn:   Whether the coach regularly used language that rose to the level of abuse and whether the AD crossed the line in his relationship with one of the players. 

By: Free Quebec (6,340 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:31:30 PM

Tim, you and I don't agree often on political subjects, but your defense of how gay men are smeared is well-written, on-point, and important. Well done.

That may not actually be what's happening here, but it's still an important conversation. Thank you for posting it.

By: GayWHoops (7/27/2016 12:32:14 PM)

I haven't posted here in years, and trust me, I really don't want to me..

But the comparisons of PN to Jerry Sandusky and the perpetuation of PN as a big scary gay perv out to fondle student athletes has really pissed me off.

Is it possible PN or any gay person to be capable of such a thing? absolutely. But no one here knows the facts. GWhoops is not his trial and jury. Yet people here seem to prefer this narrative and are perpetuating it in order to exonerate ML, and that is inherently homophobic.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:35:55 PM

Well Thinker you have missed the point entirely. He should be quiet in the face of an anonymous false assault on his integrity, his judgment, and his livelihood?  He should be quiet while he is falsely tried by his peers/recruits/recruits families in the court of public opinion affecting his program and future recruiting? He should be quiet while he is falsely lumped in with Mike Rice as just another abusive coach? He should just be quiet period. Right? 

It was extremely unseemly for people to go anonymously to the Post to begin with.

No the right PR is always the truth. The truth will set you free. You never have to apologize for telling the truth anytime or any place. And we will get to the truth.

And just in case everyone thinks this is organized or orchestrated, I am not aware that ML has asked anyone to advocate on his behalf either here or otherwise. He certainly didn't ask me. And I don't even know who Skittles or JJ or any of the other supporters here are although I would like to know.

But when you have friends this is what friends do, they get your back when they feel you are being wronged unjustly. What will only matter in the end is the truth of the matter asserted! As I said I believe ML is telling the truth. Could I be wrong? Certainly. Am I biased? Probably. But I am willing to stake a claim here that ML will be vindicated. All the PN stuff I could care less about for the moment other than as it impacts the ML investigation. If I had my way I would figure out a way forward with both men. Unfortunately, I don't think that is possible any longer.

But all the PR nonsense is more Washington bullshit/distraction. Just remember the old adage that lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth catches up with it.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:47:16 PM

GayWHoops - nice strawman argument. Who here compared PN to Jerry Sandusky? Please provide me an example.

Sorry this isn't about gay, straight or anything else. That's all a smokescreen now. This is about whether not ML said or did the things anonymously alleged and now whether or not PN did the things anonymously alleged,. That is all. I don't think anyone wanted this mess and certainly not ML or PN. But some times when you light a stick of dynamite it blows up in your face.

By: The MV (4,915 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:48:06 PM

Gaywhoops, you'll be happy to know that I just finished reading the "Appropriate Actions and Opinions Towards Gay Men" handbook and I think I now have it right.

If I were to fire a gay employee who consistently was late to work and performed well below expectation, then I would be homophobic.

If a driver cut me off and I gave him a dirty look and then noticed a pro-gay bumper sticker on his car after the fact, then I would be homophobic.

if I were to watch a television show but didn't laugh at any of a gay character's jokes because I simply didn't find them to be funny, then I would be homophobic.

Thanks for showing me the light.

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:50:14 PM

What Tim4 (and others) wrote.  Thinker too actually

By: Slayer (7/27/2016 12:52:38 PM)

No one here compared PN to Sandusky. GayWHoops completely made that up to push his agenda. 

By: bobo (3,178 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:55:05 PM

I agree with LSF that there's no evidence of gay bashing so far on this board. We do not know the facts of the matter so all of this is pure speculation. But for Tim or GWGay to lable people homophobes or gay bashers does NOT further the conversation...it simply shuts down debate.

By: Colonial'13 (94 posts) - 7/27/2016 12:55:10 PM

GayWHoops - Who is comparing Nero to Sandusky?? I've only seen you mention the two in the same sentence. I'm all on board the anti-gay bashing and homophobia issues, but I'm honestly not seeing it here and think you are reaching. Gay or not, an AD having as much contact with a player as is described here would be inappropriate regardless. As to who to put more faith in, The Post anonymous sources or "insiders" here, to each his own.

By: GayWHoops (7/27/2016 1:02:35 PM)

By: LA Fan (1,525 posts) - 7/26/2016 2:54:50 PM

I don't think anyone on the basketball team is under 18.  So that hopefully isn't an issue.  But still, I happened to think about Penn State too.  

What happened?  And was there a cover-up?  That's what the attorney needs to find out.  Will we see a larger house-cleaning at GW because of this?

By: bballfan (7/27/2016 1:02:40 PM)

In fact - ML has asked (in writing, with his name on it!) that none of his family and friends to post anything.  He will not lower himself to answer the false, disgusting accusations made against him.  As his wife posted on FB - when they g

Point of fact - ML has asked (in writing, with his name on it!) that none of his family and friends post anything.  He will not lower himself to answer the false, disgusting accusations made against him.  As his wife posted on FB – “when they go low, we go high".  He will let the investigation deal with it.  So get over yourselves!

And for God’s sake – stop thinking this is a Gay bashing – it is not.  Neither ML nor anyone who knows anything said it was about being Gay.  What we are saying happened would be inappropriate no matter what the sexual preference was, and no matter what happened behind closed doors.  The sexual harassment came from the Post and Nero’s attorney.

If people are leaking things - maybe they are fed up with the crap being said about ML, knowing it is likely PN who initiated it.  And trust me - I know!  But yes - I am anonymous too, just like all of you!  :-)

o low, we go high".  He will let the investigation deal with it.  So get over yourself!

If people are leaking things - maybe they are fed up with the crap being said about ML, knowing it is likely PN who initiated it.  And trust me - I know!  But yes - I am anonomous too!  :-)

By: GayWHoops (7/27/2016 1:04:56 PM)

By: ziik. (7/26/2016 2:39:53 PM)

Bo-If that story about the AD is deemed credible, well, the entire matter is different. Hell, GW starts looking like a minor league PennState, if the player is underage. (17). 

By: Slayer (7/27/2016 1:11:24 PM)

LOL that's what you were referring to with your homophobia rant?! That is not homophobic at all. First of all he acknowledged that it is a lesser offense and second of all he was only saying it relates if there was a minor involved. You went 0 to 100 and translated that to what you wanted and called someone out for comparing Nero to Sandusky which is quite a stretch. Not even close man.

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/27/2016 1:14:58 PM

I said that, true. IF PN took advantage of an under aged student, and the ML story was out out as a coverup. 

Nobody has a right to prey on underaged students, of any sexual orientation. That is pretty simple. 

But, it seems we do not have that, GayWhhoops, so my remark was inapt. 

mrs. ziik is a teacher. We joke about the apparent national rage of teachers hitting on underaged students. Well, I joke, she cringes, but only because it is so sick, it is hard to take.

Are you suggesting a relationship between and adult official of GW and an uneraged student is fine? Or fine if it is a gay relationship?  I doubt it would be accepted, no matter the sexual orientation(s) involved.

I sort of doubt this situation ever goes that far. But, the U will sort it all out.

 

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/27/2016 1:15:03 PM

"When they go low we go high"   that's quite comical 

By: The Dude (529 posts) - 7/27/2016 1:21:56 PM

The idea that Nero is being sullied on the basis of invented poster names making up a transparent lie, with such an obvious and insidious agenda is deplorable, but treating such a baldfaced bunch of horseshit with an ounce of seriousness is equally deplorable.  

One of the Nation's top papers of record with 6 sources from GW ran a troubling story about ML.   And on the otherhand we have a poster inventing new anomymous names to lie and sully Nero.  Pathetic as to the latter, troubling and still unclear as to the former. Open your eyes.

By: Hoopsfan78 (7/27/2016 1:22:51 PM)

GayWhoops fan, as everyone will attest my comments since the story broke would be seen as believing what the post reported and if anything defending PN.

Since the story broke i have commented to others offline that i am shocked how mature the conversation has been.  I can think of a hundred examples of places where certain fans would have posted actual homophobic slurs/comments just because and not in any defense of ML.

At one point a commenter said, something to the effect of "if mike did say the quote about a sexual relationship and it was based in reality the university to be looking at a penn state/sandusky scenario."  While i don't agree (based on the fact that all on the team are/were 18 and above) i don't think that was a homophobic statement.

Lastly, if you read the comment that started this chain and some of the other pro-ML responses that claim to have information from direct university/athletic department sources.  They actually haven't said anything relating to the post "sexual relationship" comment.  What they have said is that PN is accused of maybe being a little too close with one player, including having that individual over to his house alone.  They further stated that they believed this wasn't normal activity for an AD. 

I agree that the fact that this includes accusations that include two males does bring other outside questions about motives of individuals into this.  But at the same time i believe all that have posted regularly about this topic have been respectful (when it comes to the "gay" part of this story). 

enough complications with everything here, i'm not sure we need to be tossing any more hand grenades.

 

By: GayWHoops (7/27/2016 1:26:57 PM)

You're justifying ML telling players that PN is jerking off to their tapes and  that PN had sex with a teammate, because, well, PN is the big gay perv. That is homophobic. That is classic gay panic defense, which has a long history of working in this country. Gay people also find it extremely offensive when you call us child predators. If PN had a relationship with a student, that is inappropriate, wrong, and a fireable offense.. but it is not illegal. Any comparison, rather direct or indirect, to someone who preyed on little children and even adopted them to molest them, is wrong. I never said anyone here said what PN did was as wrong as what Jerry Sandusky- I'm saying you found similarities. I find it extremely offensive when gay people are compared, on any minor scale, to pedophiles.

Sorry but you don't get to tell me that's not homphobic. You sound like Donald Trump supporters saying they're not racist.

By: hoopsfan78 (7/27/2016 1:32:28 PM)

GayWHoops,

i am not telling you how to feel at all.  Also, you speak for yourself and not all LGBT individuals.  My statemnet was simply laying out facts (as i have seen them).

Those individuals that have commented have simply said that ML never made the statements.  I don't believe one of them has said "f-yah he said them, he said it because it is true. "  They are saying the answer is that the quotes are false and madeup (i don't agree with them, but i respect their right to have that opinion) 

People have been emotional and have very strong opinions on both sides. 

By: The Emperor (7/27/2016 1:37:26 PM)

Let the hate flow through you

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/27/2016 1:49:05 PM

GayWHoops - your comments are deplorable. No one has justified the comments ML is alleged to have made. What some of us are saying is that we don't believe he made them. Stop with all the anti-gay nonsense - it really diminishes you. It doesn't exist here. I am sure you can find it elsewhere if you just want to rant. 

By: Remember Fort Myer (14 posts) - 7/27/2016 1:50:37 PM

Maybe I got lost in these threads, but how did the issue of sex or someone's sexual preferences become an issue?  The only "factual" sexual reference I recall is the word masturbate, and as Bill Clinton said, that would depend on your definition of what sex is.

By: GayWHoops (7/27/2016 1:56:10 PM)

Regardless of wether you believe ML made the comments or not, and I'm leaning towards believing the students-athletes vetted by the Washington Post over someone named skittles, the subsequent perpetuation on this board of PN as the big gay boogie man is undeniable.

You can call me deplorable or eviscerate what I've said using semantics all you want. You can also say 'no one here is homophobic because we don't use gay slurs like other sites would.' I understand that's a lot easier ✌️

By: GayWHoops (7/27/2016 1:59:08 PM)

And no one seems to give a flying fuck that in perpetuating this narrative of PN as the big gay boogie man, you've publicly outted someone who chose not to be out. And can you blame him in the world of athletics?

That personal choice, and victory, of coming out on your own terms is forever taken away from him.

By: JJ (33 posts) - 7/27/2016 2:03:31 PM

Just a follow-up on what I originally started. This is not a made up name. I dont have any other names on here. Some people want themselves to be known while others do not. Thats their choice. Also, im not much of a person who likes to write on here only when I feel like I have something to add. You dont have to be a regular poster on here to comment. Its an open board with everyone sharing their opinions. 

As far as the "relationship". I am not aware what type it is.That will be investigated and defined by others. But the individual meetings and dinners did happen. No matter what the orientation of the participants, first, its very unusual for an AD to meet and dine with individual student athletes as often as it was happening. Second, due to the frequency of the meetings, dinners and other undefined potential benefits, the NCAA would see this as a violation. It would be similar if a coach would frequently paid for a player's meals. Its just not allowed by the NCAA. So this would jeopardize GW to NCAA violations. Its a red flag for them that there is no institutional control. 

But as many on here have confirmed after my comment, there was one Associate AD in charge of the program the past year. The question that needs to be answered is if the coach was cleared before the season by the school, why would they need to assign someone to the program? Who decided it and why? This is not normal for most athletic departments considering this is the #1 revenue generating sport in the athletic department and generates to most publicity for the school. 

 Since the Post article provided one perspective. I was just trying to provide the board with information that might be useful and may come out after the investigation when details of what is already known by universityofficials will be released.  Bottom line the Post opened a can of worms. Everyone can say what they want, when the facts of the investigation are complete, hopefully the truth and whole picture are shared with the public. 

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/27/2016 2:05:31 PM

GayWHoops I respect where you are coming from, but Lonergan is the one who has taken that choice and victory away from Nero.  He's the one who has been saying the nasty stuff about Nero to his players and obviously to his family and friends and anyone who wll listen.  

By: JJ (33 posts) - 7/27/2016 2:27:49 PM

Just a follow-up on what I originally started. This is not a made up name. I dont have any other names on here. Some people want themselves to be known while others do not. Thats their choice. Also, im not much of a person who likes to write on here only when I feel like I have something to add. You dont have to be a regular poster on here to comment. Its an open board with everyone sharing their opinions. 

As far as the "relationship". I am not aware what type it is.That will be investigated and defined by others. But the individual meetings and dinners did happen. No matter what the orientation of the participants, first, its very unusual for an AD to meet and dine with individual student athletes as often as it was happening. Second, due to the frequency of the meetings, dinners and other undefined potential benefits, the NCAA would see this as a violation. It would be similar if a coach would frequently paid for a player's meals. Its just not allowed by the NCAA. So this would jeopardize GW to NCAA violations. Its a red flag for them that there is no institutional control. 

But as many on here have confirmed after my comment, there was one Associate AD in charge of the program the past year. The question that needs to be answered is if the coach was cleared before the season by the school, why would they need to assign someone to the program? Who decided it and why? This is not normal for most athletic departments considering this is the #1 revenue generating sport in the athletic department and generates to most publicity for the school. 

 Since the Post article provided one perspective. I was just trying to provide the board with information that might be useful and may come out after the investigation when details of what is already known by universityofficials will be released.  Bottom line the Post opened a can of worms. Everyone can say what they want, when the facts of the investigation are complete, hopefully the truth and whole picture are shared with the public. 

By: JJ (33 posts) - 7/27/2016 3:00:37 PM

Just a follow-up on what I originally started. This is not a made up name. I dont have any other names on here. Some people want themselves to be known while others do not. Thats their choice. Also, im not much of a person who likes to write on here only when I feel like I have something to add. You dont have to be a regular poster on here to comment. Its an open board with everyone sharing their opinions. 

As far as the "relationship". I am not aware what type it is.That will be investigated and defined by others. But the individual meetings and dinners did happen. No matter what the orientation of the participants, first, its very unusual for an AD to meet and dine with individual student athletes as often as it was happening. Second, due to the frequency of the meetings, dinners and other undefined potential benefits, the NCAA would see this as a violation. It would be similar if a coach would frequently paid for a player's meals. Its just not allowed by the NCAA. So this would jeopardize GW to NCAA violations. Its a red flag for them that there is no institutional control. 

But as many on here have confirmed after my comment, there was one Associate AD in charge of the program the past year. The question that needs to be answered is if the coach was cleared before the season by the school, why would they need to assign someone to the program? Who decided it and why? This is not normal for most athletic departments considering this is the #1 revenue generating sport in the athletic department and generates to most publicity for the school. 

 Since the Post article provided one perspective. I was just trying to provide the board with information that might be useful and may come out after the investigation when details of what is already known by universityofficials will be released.  Bottom line the Post opened a can of worms. Everyone can say what they want, when the facts of the investigation are complete, hopefully the truth and whole picture are shared with the public. 

By: FredD (7/27/2016 3:07:10 PM)

As an alum I want what is best for the school #1. #2 as a fan I want men's bb not to get demolished. What the heat echoed in this thread of people who like or identify with GW proves to me is what a horrendous outcome this will be.  As Tim4 and others have said the  Post did not create this story out of nothing and bc it's the Post the most dramatic aspects will stick the most UNLESS  the follow up proves the story is False and the Post chooses to follow up with the same vigor. Debate all you want but  this plain sucks. I feel real bad for PN , ML and my school and even the unnamed 6.

 

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/27/2016 3:17:17 PM

Poster and GayWHoops - it has not been established that ML outed PN. That is your spin for the moment. Perhaps you should blame the player who initiated the story. Perhaps he should've checked with PN first before placing such inflammatory language into the record which may not even be true!

GayWHoops - perhaps it is easier for your narrative to assume that everyone who discusses this story with a viewpoint counter to yours is gay bashing. Sort of like everyone who criticizes Obama on policy is by definition a racist. Please stop with the identity politics. No one gives a shit whether PN is gay or straight. No one is threatened by him. All anyone wants is for the full facts to come to light in this whole sordid affair and then we will let the chips fall where they may.

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/27/2016 3:26:20 PM

nice strawman arguments bo knows

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/27/2016 3:36:44 PM

which part of my post was a strawman?

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/27/2016 3:41:01 PM

Obama is a stretch too far, Bo. Or, would you prefer to now be paying for John McCain's wars in Libya, Syria, and Timbuktu?

By: Hugh Jaynus (5 posts) - 7/27/2016 3:47:42 PM

Anyone see Mike Breys comments about this situation? Andy Katz via twitter

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/27/2016 3:50:19 PM

Well ziik, you can look at it 2 ways. We might have been paying for McCain's wars but we will be paying for the wars to come due to the inaction by Obama. This is sort of like praising Neville Chamberlain because he avoided war with Hitler for a couple of years.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/27/2016 3:52:54 PM

"Notre Dame coach Mike Brey said on the CBB podcast he has talked to his good friend GW coach Mike Lonergan, who is under investigation for emotional and verbal abuse. "I grabbed him in Vegas and said how can I help you? He's a teacher and educator and intense guy too. He can't overreact. I said you can't get into a public contest of throwing barbs. But it's my alma mater and I'm disappointed in the administration that they could have handled this better. I'm close to the place and love the place. The guy has done a good job. He works his butt off and represents the place well. I just hope it works out and Mike continues to stay at GW. As an alum we're happy the way he's run the program."

By: Buffman (38 posts) - 7/27/2016 3:59:02 PM

bo knows is a biased mechancial idiot on every issue, why anyone even asks him a question is beyond me, you know his answer before you get one, you know what the post will read before you read it

like a lab created a combining of skip bayless with sean hannity and a dose of sarah palin:  

1 - lonergan is infallible,

2 - anyone who disagrees the slightest is without any of  the facts and or lying, his opinions are facts, your facts are wrong opinions

3 - and blame obama if the subject turns political

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 7/27/2016 3:59:48 PM

Bo, you are over your head. McCain dropped the ball on the economy, early on too. 

I thought he was a close call, and should have won that election, But, he seemed to have KH's knack for petulence, It was hard to watch.

Our nation is struggling with stupidity and ignorance these days on all fronts. It really is a shame.

Nice to see Mike Brey's comments. 

By: Poster (5 posts) - 7/27/2016 4:04:06 PM

Brey acted classy and gracious, what did you expect?  He certainly has no idea what is going on day to day at GW. 

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/27/2016 4:13:56 PM

Buffman glad you could join the discussion ... but you know nothing of me so I've already spent more time addressing you than you deserve.

By: Bigfan (2,829 posts) - 7/27/2016 4:33:08 PM

Feel bad for what gay and transgender people have had to have gone through. It is just terrible But much, though hardly all, of that has disappeared.

But in today's politically correct environment, any mention of anything that could be miscontrued as homophobic is the third rail of society, looking at the responses and frankly, the article. Jerking off over practice tapes in my opinion is a joke many people over 40 would make. Now, the unrevealed in the Post information may add poignancy to the comment. But still could be a joke, albeit a bad one in todays era). Is a bad joke a firing offense now?

And if you hit transgender in there, a true hot button word, you really score in the politically correct scorned lottery.  That's the problem with the Post "story." A joke that may be about pink sneakers worn to get humorous comments, is now construed as worse than the North Carolina bathroom bill. WITH NO CONTEXT.

Now, Tim4 has been a great poster. And his heart is in the right place. But he is a millennial, so he is in the politically correct buzzword era. Again, like Tim4. He sure seems like a good guy really up on GW basketball.

But we only have to look to the Colonial Army to see how things can be miscontrued. (The Colonial Army is now really going to have to double down on that hotline for those whose safe spaces were violated by merely HEARING about this story, even though it is the summer when most students are not in university).

But levity aside, on a serious note: there's an aspect of Nero being gay, if he is gay, that would have been relevant to the Post story. Again, look at that weird quote from HIS LAWYER which seems to out him.

But I have been more afraid here to type anything about Nero being gay. I've actually  started to do so several times, but just don't want to deal with this being off the rails as GayWHoopps (whose misplaced here concerns may been formulated by legitimate societal trauma) and other posters have. Literally have typed out responses and been scared to post, because it is not only the third rail of society, but GWhoops.com.

I'm not really scared because I've seen real trauma. But I have been scared away from posting what I want due to political correctness. That's sad.

No one like to be tarred with homophobia. The Post did it to Coach Lonergan (see the other lawyer quote where they literally declared he is GUILTY of sexual harassment without any context or trying to explore his side of the story).

Now, there is a new dimension. But can't talk about because Nero is gay. Or isn't gay. Is he gay? Who gives a shit? Although it would frankly be a wonderful story of rising against societal prejudices that were ONCE prevalent. Never really came up in my limited conversations with Nero, which were solely about GW basketball. Never really thought about it or cared. Maybe the question is whether the AD had an inappropriate relationship with a player? But as others point out, while if it had been at all a male with a female, the roof would be raised and there would be protest marches.

Maybe it's not sexual, but just inappropriate. Maybe it didn't happen, but triangulating it between the odd Post story and things posted here, it sure as hell seems like there was somethign raised. But to some, we can't talk about it, because it is not permissable in today's environment, since one person may or may not be gay.

At GW, I learned about free speech. Here, at times, there really is none. That is sad.

Lives and careers are at stake. The program we love is imploding.

Both sides of the story need to come out. The Post shockingly and unprofressionally failed to do that. JJ and others on both sides should keep coming forward with real information.

This is an Internet basketball message board. But it is also in America.

We should be able to speak freely, within limits of appropriateness and decency, without censorship.

By: Bo Knows (705 posts) - 7/27/2016 4:39:38 PM

Bigfan +1

By: bballfan (7/27/2016 4:48:12 PM)

Bigfan +2

By: Buffman (38 posts) - 7/27/2016 4:59:26 PM

bo knows, the robot in rocky IV had more interesting to say than you do, and less predictably slavish responses as well

"longeran is awesome, everyone here is dumb" you could just type that and nothing more and it would be the same as any post you've ever made

By: Bballfan (7/27/2016 5:49:12 PM)

at least spell the guy's name right idiot. L-o-n-e-r-g-a-n. 

By: Buffman (38 posts) - 7/27/2016 5:57:13 PM

bigger sin was now that i think about it, i believe the robot rocky gets his kid starts rocky III, could be #4, not sure, either way the robot is less predictable than bo knows 5,000 posts assuring us that ml, the infallible pope, god's own perfect creation can do now wrong and if you think he might have, well your facts are wrong and you are an idiot

bo knows is so smitten he thinks ml never farts, but if he were to, it would smell like polo cologne

By: thinker (2,825 posts) - 7/27/2016 6:03:00 PM

Bo,

I don't know what your background is. You seems to be very intelligent. Obviously you seem to be very involved in basketball as a coach. You have said you are a lawyer and you work at a company. I don't know if you went to GW yourself. So I don't really know much about you. And yet everything is about context - though we don't really have any context about you.

On the other hand, lots of people here actually know me personally like Herve, MV, BM, Alumnus, Formerly Boston Pops, Squid, I helped LSF change a flat tire once, I've spoken to Ziik on the phone, I've met Lev and his son, I believe I've met Dolphin Michael and Tuna. I'm not sure exactly how I never came to know FQ personally, but I certainly wish that I had before I left DC.

Increasingly your and others' ferver to defend your friend ML has gotten a bit over the top. Above your last post directed towards me (when I said ML should stop leaking things) you responded 

Well Thinker you have missed the point entirely. He should be quiet in the face of an anonymous false assault on his integrity, his judgment, and his livelihood?  He should be quiet while he is falsely tried by his peers/recruits/recruits families in the court of public opinion affecting his program and future recruiting? He should be quiet while he is falsely lumped in with Mike Rice as just another abusive coach? He should just be quiet period. Right? 

My answer is YES. He should be quiet for now. I feel like I can say that because there is context about me here. In addition to being a lawyer myself, my father was a diplomat and I lived in 6 different countries growing up with my father often being the spokesman for the US Government. I also worked on Capitol Hill for 3 different members. I worked as a lobbyist for a federal agency under attack from Congress. I worked as a Presidential Appointee in the USDA Office of Civil Rights. I have been a consulant for GW working directly for the Comptroller on a very sensitive project. I've written speeches and testimony; I've prepared Presidential appointees for Senate Confirmation hearings. I've had lots of interaction with the media - directly under my name and on behalf of my principals. I worked at a very high level on defense and national security issues and played a central role on issues concerning nuclear submarines, Blackhawk helicopter sales, negotiated all kinds of complicated deals, and on and on. I've traveled to 4 foreign countries as a representative of the US Congress. I have worked at the highest levels with individuals and their staff whose names most people would recognize and would likely be appointees in the next presidential administration. I've hired Jake Stein and Plato Cacheris and coordinated the legal defense of my client with them (look them up if you don't know who they are).

So yes, I think I might have a better sense of politics and PR and what would be smart for ML than you, his friend and basketball person. I actually think ML has bungled his PR stuff from the very first day of his arrival at GW. Some other time I will gladly post my list of all the PR things he's done which seem very stupid to me. Mrs. Lonergan recently posting biblical verses in defense of her husband is just one most recent stupid thing.

That doesn't mean I know what has been going on at GW on this whole mess. It doesn't mean that I am against him or that I want him fired or otherwise gone. I don't know what's going on and I hope ML doesn't have to be fired. But I'm going to say that your efforts and the others who are posting things on his behalf are making it look worse for him not better. You all are making it harder for him to maintain his job and reputation not easier. That comes from a 50+ year lifetime of being involved in politics and PR. Anyone else is free to post their credentials here if they think they fundamentally understand politics and PR better than me.

If I were advising ML (and I've advised plenty of people higher than him) I'd say put out a statement along the lines of 

"I think this story is fundamentally untrue and unfair. I love GW and my players. I would never do anything to harm either of them. I look forward to the investigation exonerating me and I will cooperate fully. In order to not interfere with the investigation, I hope everyone will understand that I will not be commenting on this matter further. I ask that all of my friends and supporters do the same. Thank you. Raise High!"

Then I'd advise ML to STFU almost no matter what.

Bo, you and others are clearly loyal friends of ML. Everything you say even may be true. But IT'S BAD PR FOR ML.It's bad strategy vis-a-vis GW.

You all have INVITED more shit to come out. You have invited MORE AMBIGUITY. You have helped create a permanent thread here for people to read that airs out everything. That's actaully not good for ML. You are actually making things worse for him. If GW adminstration people read this (and how wouldn't they) they will see ML's fingers in all of this (whether that's true or not) and be more motivated to stick it to him - if they are at all inclined to do so. Logical people will conclude that, with all of this effort directed by ML (and that's what people will assume whether that's true or not) he must actually feel like there is some merit to the charges. Savvy observers will speculate that he already knows he's out and he's spinning things to get a better deal or to maintian the possibility of coaching again.

That's all Bowie shit, not the way things work in the big city under the bright lights. That's my personal and professional opinion backed up by the credentials I have listed. If you want to say your personal and professional credentials make your opinion have more weight than mine, then you should definitely list those. Otherwise, if you are all truly friends of ML you should really stop because it's truly counterproductive for him. 

PLEASE do not reply with some "Oh I think Maggie was absolutely right to tweet biblical verses." Everyone on his side should be keeping their mouths shut. 

 

By: Bballfan (7/27/2016 6:05:06 PM)

Funny how not a single post I could find has said ML was infallible.  Most agree he is tough and animated on the court - they just aren't buying the load of crap being offered up by the Post.  

By: Remember Fort Myer (14 posts) - 7/27/2016 6:51:56 PM

I think that anyone posting this on Board, and just plain anyone, has equal rights and are all equally accomplished in their own way.  I hope we don't have to start posting our curriculum vitae to support our thoughts and opinions.

Great Publicity!

GW basketball players report coachs verbal and emotional abuse; many fled school

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Top Transfers Sitting Out Next Season

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2451008-ranking-the-best-college-basketball-players-sitting-out-the-2015-16-season/page/11 (Includes Kethan Savage)

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