By: thinker (2,825 posts) - 2/8/2016 9:22:07 PM

There's been plenty discussion about uneveness of effort at times this year. That happens but it happens more often with this team than I'd expect given how veteran the team is with 6 guys in their 4th year of college.

Deep into their sophmore years I'm not really sure "who" Yuta and Paul are. I do know that Yuta is not a guard. ML replaces Yuta with a guard in the first substitution and generally the starting 5 are not on the floor together for a ton of minutes. But what is he? So far this year he's looked more like a hustle glue guy rather than the impact scorer I was expecting after his freshman year. He helps in a number of ways but at times I see him in the game and I think "has he been in all this time?" Can you be a really good shooter and have an entire season long shooting slump? So I really like Yuta but don't really know "who" he is.

The same thing with Paul. Is he a scorer, a point guard? I think the box scores really muddy the issue. JoeMac got hurt 9 games ago. He left that game 9 minutes in and missed the next two. Paul and Mitola split his minutes mostly for those games, but when JoeMac returned Mitola's minutes stayed way up and Paul's minutes have really dropped off.

Win or lose I have seen that the offense has run a lot more crisply with Mitola on the ball and JoeMac off the ball. ML has put Mitola in that spot instead of Paul so that kind of gives us some indication. It also hasn't seemed like Paul has scored a lot in the flow of the regular offense. So I like Paul but I don't know "who" he is either.

A handful of games left and if you told me that GW was going to blast through the rest of the season, win a couple games in the A-10 tourney and get to the NCAA's in strong shape? I'd say, yeah I could see that. If you told me that they'll falter against St. Joes and Bonaventure, get beat early in the A-10 tourney and maybe limp into the NIT? I'd say, yeah I could see that.

So I just don't know what we have here.

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 2/8/2016 9:30:18 PM

Yuta is a developing basketball player. I think its clear ML and Yuta are dedicated, both of them, to using Yuta's 4 full college players to becoming a complete player, who will be able to play, and score a ton. A nice college forward, maybe a nice pro guard. (Like the Butler big guard from its final 4 team. )

PJ? A combo. Maybe a back up combo. But, a guy who is trusted to win tight games down the road. 

Nice post, Thinker. it's a fine season, so long as we enjoy the games one by one. Maybe stop the carping along the way, too. (You know who you are. The carpers.)

 

By: pops (505 posts) - 2/10/2016 4:07:42 AM

113 games into their careers and I'm not sure who Pato and Larsen are.  Regardless of which path the remainder of the season takes, our 3 seniors will go down as great colonials and very good players.  But whether they are any more than that will be determined over the course of the next 10 to 12 games.

The other players are nice and I'm not discounting the possibility that someone like Yuta, PJ or even a Roland catching fire but this is up to Pato, Cavs and Larsen.  How they go, so shall we.  Each of these 3 has the ability to play like a 1st team A10er.  What we saw from Pato on Saturday is what we've been waiting for.  what we've seen from Cavs during stretches is equally impressive and we all know the two sides of Kev.  These 3 playing well together down the stretch could take us to a different level.

whatever, its been a fun ride, if frustrating.  i know one thing, if we do get on a roll the foul shooting of cavs, garino and mitola in particular will prove invaluable.

By the way, agree with Mitola running the offense whenever he's in there.  I like Joe on the floor but he's better for us as the 2 or 3.  I would have liked the PJ from november and december but i just hope the current one can provide some positive minutes.

and finally, I am starting to get excited about swan.  if he can keep providing positive minutes we might start seeing a little bit more from him.

By: pops (505 posts) - 2/10/2016 4:18:58 AM

scratch what i said about garino's free throws.  i didn't realize he was only shooting 67% and 65% in conference.  it felt like he was shooting better than that.  but yuta's pct is now approaching 80 so i think cavs, yuta and mitola's free throw shooting will help down the stretch.

By: Free Quebec (2/10/2016 8:07:17 AM)

One thing I thing I think we have in Yuta is a developing defensive stopper.  His length and ability to move his feet are wreaking havoc on a lot of perimeter players.  

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 2/10/2016 8:27:18 AM

I actually think we have a pretty good handle on who this team is, Thinker.  We are basically a very good team that matches up with any team in the conference that is one player short (dare I say Kethan?) from being a great team.   There are a handful of games in which we may have fallen flat, but this is a very good team.   We know our defensive strengths (rebounding, length), and weaknesses (small quick guards and lack of speed).  We know our offensive strengths (pound it inside, get to the line) and weaknesses(again lack of speed and no true 2).   We know we lack depth on the bench, especially up front.  We certainly know Pato's, Kevin's Joes and Tylers game, even if there may be some disappointment in a part of all 4's game.  As for Yuta...he is a small forward playing out of position because that position is already taken by a great player.  Mitola is a very smart but otherwise limited substitute point guard who makes the best of his limited court skills.   Swan is a small forward who is rapidly developing (I hope everyone is noticing that) but has a way to go.   Same for Jordan at the guard position.  He is a slasher first and a shooter second.   The only real paradox on the team is PJ, who I beleive cannot play his natural game (a creative wing guard) due to needs at other positions.   Bottom line...this team can beat anyone in the league, and I am not saying the old cliche "on any given night".   There is no team in the conference that can look at GW, either home or road, and can assume a win.   Can you imagine a starting 5 with Kethan at the wing and Yuta coming off the bench?  What is, and what should never be.

By: Free Quebec (6,340 posts) - 2/10/2016 9:37:02 AM

I don't want to turn this into a Kethan thread, LSF, but while I agree with you in theory, Kethan's inability to stretch the floor and the fact that he didn't always move the ball quickly or pass much might have actually worked against the chemistry of this team.  We could have used his quickness at times, no doubt, but I'm not sure we'd be much better with him,

By: Rich Maier (17 posts) - 2/10/2016 9:41:14 AM

LSF, I would take your view of GW down a notch. We are a good team and 1 player away from being very good. A great team wins a national championship and we're much more than 1 player away from winning the NCAAs.  

By: go bananas (2/10/2016 9:50:39 AM)

I think what I like about this team is that I - plus the other team - don't know who are players are. Switching up who has a good night makes us more agile rather than depending on our 1 or 2 star players. I think that's what makes us hard to defend... at least when we're hot.

By: BACCAS92 (705 posts) - 2/10/2016 10:07:53 AM

Irony would be if Butler is sitting at home and we are dancing.  Savage said on the bench at Butler for no reason. 

By: 603Colonial (2/10/2016 10:26:27 AM)

Yuta has all the makings to be a 3 and D guy, which is an extremely hot trend in the NBA right now and is essential for a championship contender.  Yuta isn't really stroking it at all this year, but it doesn't look like a mechanical issue.  He has nice form and I believe it will start falling again eventually.  He has continued to improve defensively, and his feet aren't as slow as people believe (only when they put him on small, quick guards).  But he is athletic and hustles and can grab boards.  I firmly beleive that shot will start falling and with four years, he really does have a lot of upside. Ziik, are you talking about Gordan Hayward?  I can see some of the similarities.  Not sure how much anyone watches Utah, but Gordan continues to improve and has put more muscle on each year (and will make max money next year through free agency, but who won't make max money moving forward).  Probably something Yuta will need to continue to do.

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 2/10/2016 11:10:42 AM

I agree with Kethan's deficiencies as you stated, Free, but with Kethan, we probably would have (1) improved at the 2, as Kethan is probably a superior wing guard to Yuta;  (2) added a fast player and a stong defender to the team; and (3) lengthened a short  bench.  

By: thinker (2,825 posts) - 2/10/2016 1:35:24 PM

Pops,

I totally agree witht the notion that we are never sure "which" version of Kevlar or Garino will show up.

FQ,

I agree that Yuta is turning into an impactful defender/rebounder. Still I'm puzzled as to why he hasn't been more impactful offensively.

LSF,

Your posts over the past weeks run contrary to the notion that we know what we have. You've repeatedly spoken of being truly disappointed and having your expectations not met.

At this moment how many people would be really surprised if we fell flat against St. Joes and Bonaventure OR if we played great against them? I wouldn't be surprised either way. So to me the only thing I'm sure about is that I'm not sure about the team.

By: IM4GWU (17 posts) - 2/10/2016 1:56:13 PM

I am sure of one thing. That one thing is I wouldn't want to be seated at a desk across from most of you guys while on a job interview. Anyone ever heard the expression "full of more crap than a Christmas turkey"? Good Luck with your careers.

By: Kangy (23 posts) - 2/10/2016 2:43:35 PM

Who the hell eats turkey for Christmas?

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 2/10/2016 3:11:00 PM

Thinker:   Please don't confuse my lunatic rants when we are playing poorly with my well thought out,rational analysis which I am capable of on non game days.  I would actually be surprised if we came out flat vs. St. Joes or The Bonnies (which isn't the same as saying we are going to win.  In our big games...UVa, Seton Hall, Tennessee, Cincinatti, Dayton, Davidson, VCU, (am I leaving anyone out)...we played pretty well in all of those games.  Didn't win them all, but played pretty well.  The flat games were against some of the weaker competition, i.e. St. Louis, UCF, Mason, etc.

By: thinker (2,825 posts) - 2/10/2016 6:51:51 PM

LSF,

I will just have to add you to the list: After all of this time, I just don't know what we have with you. Sometimes you're a ranting lunatic and sometimes you're a rational analyst but where we on the outside don't really have a way of predicting when you'll be one or the other.

BTW, I'm assuming that your post was tongue in cheek.

By: maypoman (671 posts) - 2/10/2016 7:53:41 PM

We are a poor shooting team from the outside. That leaves us with free throw shooting and defense-- neither of which has been a factor so far against St. Joe's. 

By: RKelley (152 posts) - 2/10/2016 7:54:44 PM

Ugh. So bad. 

They didn't know Miles can shoot a three?

Their man defense was amazing 2 years ago. Now it's terrible with mostly the same players.

Can they shoot the three at all? I watch Joe and Yuta dribble time away and try to drive through 4 defenders for a contested runner that clanks right out. Find the open man!? Attack the defense!?

Mitola at point. Jorgensen needs to go back to Harlem to figure out how to not turn the ball over every time he touches it. I've never seen a guy miss more layups than Yuta Watanabe. Finish for heaven's sake.

By: RKelley (152 posts) - 2/10/2016 7:57:18 PM

So frustrating watching Yuta, game after game, miss that left-handed layup. Jorgensen to turn the ball over, Joe to waste time and run the most stale, ineffective offense. Do you really think draining the shot clock and trying to drive through 3 defenders for a 10-foot contested runner is going to score points? Add some offense to the playbook.

By: RKelley (152 posts) - 2/10/2016 7:59:38 PM

@Maypoman. GW is NOT a poor shooting team. Garino has the best 3PT% in the A10 while Cavanaugh is in the top 15. 

You also have Mitola, who led the Ivy League in three pointers and Matt Hart who's an excellent three shooter. Joe led the team in 3PT shooting last year and ML considers Yuta the team's best 3PT shooter (though 25% isn't exactly backing that up). Regardless, this team has plenty of shooting talent. The problem is that their offense doesn't use it, and their bland offensive playbook wastes so much of their talent in general.

By: Long suffering fan (4,106 posts) - 2/10/2016 8:23:28 PM

st joes is better than we are.  I would say more but am not in mood for the crap I would get

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 2/10/2016 8:24:41 PM

Can we play any slower?   Or any dumber?

By: RKelley (152 posts) - 2/10/2016 8:41:43 PM

No they're not. This was GW's most important game remaining. What a terrible game plan. Terrible effort. That's pretty much curtains on the season. 

By: maypoman (671 posts) - 2/10/2016 8:45:29 PM

More shooters and athletes wanted. You can be successful at Vermont with this type roster but obviously not against quick, athletic, hot-shooting A10 teams.

By: Gw212 (2/10/2016 8:50:36 PM)

Very disappointing but sj shot the lights out. True our defense was not great but they really could not miss. I continue to say we stand around and do nothing on offense. Throw the ball around the perimeter and then inside where defense collapses on Larsen or TC. So predictable. Agree we need a better playbook.  

By: maypoman (671 posts) - 2/10/2016 8:55:10 PM

RKelley: Cite all the stats you want but, except for Cavanaugh and Garino, there is not a consistent outside shooter on this team . Go to the film.

By: Fly on the Wall (625 posts) - 2/10/2016 8:57:21 PM

I agree with LSF--SJU better team than GW.

By: RKelley (152 posts) - 2/10/2016 9:03:53 PM

ML was pathetically out-coached tonight technically. And in terms of lockeroom coaching, it wasn't even close. His team played like they don't even want to play. Cavanaugh and Patricio were the only starters who showed up tonight, and that's shameful. 

I keep thinking I'm going to see the underdog spirit from this team, but it's not there. Not so charming.

Flat out, Yuta deserves to be benched. Hart deserves PJ's minutes. Mitola should be the starting point guard.

They can't beat a mediocre zone defense? This is college basketball. What do you do in practice!?

Man-to-man got shredded all night. Use the 1-3-1. When your opponent is getting to the basket without trouble, and raining 3's, at least stop the 2's.

I didn't see Matt Hart almost at all again--until junk minutes. He scores 5 points within a minute by the way. Not playing him 15-20 minutes a game was a huge misstep by ML this season. Huge.

This was the worst case scenario. You needed this win against St. Joe's to get in the tournament. You certainly couldn't get blown out by this team at home to have a shot. Terrible.

They won't win the A1 tournament. And even if they somehow got in the ncaa tournament from here, losses to St. Louis, Richmond at home, blown out by St. Joe's at home, blown out by Depaul? Forget it.

By: maypoman (671 posts) - 2/10/2016 9:04:03 PM

RKelley: Forget what I said about the stats. The stats, except for Garino and Cavanaugh, do not support your "good shooting" argument in the least. Take a look. Crappy defense does not help much either. 

By: Tennessee Colonial (1,179 posts) - 2/10/2016 9:14:12 PM

I guess the guys just want the season over and to hit the beaches. No excuse. But its not like we haven't seen this shit before. Disgusting performance for THE FANS.

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 2/10/2016 9:15:19 PM

RKelley=there isn;t enough room for error in any college basetball games for "huge" season long missteps. You're getting hysterical

Yuta sucks, except when he hustles, blocks shots, plays D, and does not suck

Alex should get Joe's minutes, except when Joe rebounds, steals balls, and hits shots with 3 guys on his back. 3 bigger guys

Hart deserves more PT. Well, yep. A bit more PT for Hart would be nice. He'd develop faster. How many wins would that mean?

None of us is at his best after a loss ike this. Every team has a few, every season. 

Enjoy the game.

I remain convinced, ML decided to stop coaching for his penance for intervening in his daughter's game. No damn reason for that. I hope he does not stop coaching for Lent.

By: Mentzinger (3,646 posts) - 2/10/2016 9:16:18 PM

For every 5 points in junk time down 24, Hart gave up wide open looks on slow closeouts that resulted in SJU absolutely torching us from the field. Quit it with Hart. He's not the answer to anything but relief minutes and spot jumpers coming off screens

By: Tennessee Colonial (1,179 posts) - 2/10/2016 9:19:42 PM

ml SAID AFTER THE HALF THE TEAM WASN'T FOLLOWING THE GAME PLAN. They play their own game. Not agressive like against VCU. Passive again. AND the refs didn't help either with their shitty calls. Back to Depression again.

By: thinker (2,825 posts) - 2/10/2016 9:27:40 PM

Beat VCU like that on the roda and lose to St Joes like that at home? Me not surprised.

By: Gw212 (2/10/2016 9:29:52 PM)

We got our clock cleaned tonite. It happens. The question I have is will we get it together of just fall apart at this point. I think we have more talent than you think. Just can't get it going. 

By: Gw212 (2/10/2016 9:36:31 PM)

We got our clock cleaned tonite. It happens. The question I have is will we get it together of just fall apart at this point. I think we have more talent than you think. Just can't get it going. 

By: Free Quebec (2/10/2016 9:56:41 PM)

RKelley, I've lost a lot of respect for your basketball analysis.  Yuta was the best defender on the floor tonight, particularly in the first half.   He was all over Bembry in the first half and shut him down more or less by himself.  It was everyone else (who got torched by their men left and right.   I know you are watching the game to support your theory but you aren't giving objective analysis. 

By: Long Suffering Fan (4,106 posts) - 2/10/2016 10:16:55 PM

Do I think that Phil Martelli is a better coach than Mike Lonergan?  No.   On the other hand, it seemed like St. Joes had a game plan that knew exactly how to attack us on offense as well as defend us, and it looked like we did not have a clue all night.    Slow motion perimeter passing, followed by someone trying to force the issue inside, was not getting it done early in the game, in the middle of the game and at the end of the game, yet that is all we did.  A pitiful performance in a very big game.

By: LA Fan (1,525 posts) - 2/10/2016 10:17:51 PM

Gw212 I think what we are learning as the season has gone on is that we have some players who do have different talents on both sides of the court, but as a team we are too slow footed defensively to compete with top tier teams.  We can't stop A-10 caliber guards from getting to the basket.  I feel like GW is becoming an easy team to scout.  Coaches just need to tell their quickest players to take our guys off the dribble and we are toast.  

GW can't stop quicker, more athletic teams.  For some reason we stopped the quickest of A-10 teams, VCU, and we did it with the 1-3-1.  We forced VCU to hit threes and they didn't.  Tonight SJU did.  The 1-3-1 is a big gamble and on most nights GW will lose with it.  We need quicker players who have the footspeed to play man D and help other players on D.  We don't have it, and there is the ceiling for this team.  Yes we beat UVA, Seton Hall and VCU, but sometimes you just have to say life is strange.

By: gdubalum03 (2/10/2016 10:20:17 PM)

LSF - agree with your assessment, though I do think much of what you mentioned is exactly why I feel that Martelli is a much better coach than ML.  I could not have been more impressed (and frustrated) with how calm they were, how they ran their offense, how they got to the basket, how they got open looks, how they stifled us on defense, etc etc.  He had his team ready to go from the tip and never got rattled.  

By: ziik (2,950 posts) - 2/10/2016 10:22:58 PM

What? You've suffered what, LSF? 60 years? Not enough to understand? 

I am serious. I am convnced, ML gave Phil the game as penance for the sin of acting like a whiny father at his daughter's basketball game. Now, I am worried, as a serious practicing Catholic, he may give up coaching for Lent. 

I am sort of serious. ML was a different guy tonight. It was hard to watch, untill I said 3 Hail Mary's and an Act of Contrition. Then, it came to me. 

Our coach was doing his penance. He had sinned against the basketball gods and the scoring officials. Worse, he went on the radio to brag about it. He was needed to pay.

By: Free Quebec (6,340 posts) - 2/10/2016 10:40:02 PM

LA Fan, I don't think it's fair to say "for some reason" we stopped them.

We've had two total meltdown games this year where the other team used both speed and shooting to make us look pathetic, St. Joe's and DePaul.  SLU played like crap against us, but still won because we fell asleep.  We had Dayton and Cincy both on the ropes, but lost close ones (just as we pulled out close ones agaist VCU and URI).  We also beat a very quick Tennessee team and a fast Seton Hall team.

We can beat these kinds of teams, but we have to play a really focused, aggressive game to do it, and we have to make shots.

By: Bigfan (2,829 posts) - 2/11/2016 12:07:12 AM

Note rarely seen poster name but one that pointed out he was for GW (like we are not?) who attacked Thinker for his shocking premise that GW is unpredictably inconsistent--did not pop up again after we followed a huge win with Wednesday's disaster.

By: RKelley (152 posts) - 2/11/2016 8:42:31 PM

@FQ

Yuta is a bad offender. His is fine, but nothing special. All of our forwards got smoked.

There's more talent here than was shown on the court last night. A lot more.

And I wouldn't be talking about objective basketball analysis unless you have a background in it. In that arena, I will smoke you.

By: RKelley (152 posts) - 2/11/2016 8:44:07 PM

His D' is fine, but nothing special. All of our forwards got smoked.*

By: RKelley (152 posts) - 2/11/2016 9:06:49 PM

@Ziik Blocks are meaningless. They say nothing about a players defense. I'll leave that to you to Google.

Counting stats don't tell the whole story. Joe isn't the best point guard on the team right now in terms of offense. He's still a very good guard, but let's not get into a 10-sentence preface.

And usage and minutes played distort a lot of the stats you're probably relying on. They don't tell the accurate story. Mitola, according to his career numbers, is an excellent long-range shooter and 1/2 guard. When he has started, the team has been a monster offensively. It's not just TC and Garino.

Tbe best 5 players don't always get the most minutes. Season-long error is the norm for college basketball teams. Just not the norm for the good ones. We misunderstand the game more than we understand it.

St. Joe's is a good team. But not a +18 team on GW at home. GW lost that game. TC is the A10 player of the year. Garino is one of the best players in the A10. We're almost totally healthy. They just lost to St. Bonaventure. 

We have skilled shooters, the offense is just not beating zone defenses for a good look from 3 consistently.

Yuta's defense is seemingly fine. But the entire package is not. His offense is bad. 46% eFG%, 26% from 3pt range is not a wing player--especially one who can't finish a layup or find the open man. His poss% is the lowest of any non benchwarmer, and his assist and turnover rates show the ball doesn't move through him at all.

That's why I like rotating offensive players (Hart, Mitola, PJ when he's not terrible like he is now) in with Yuta.

It's not difficult to predict what St. Joe's was planning on doing. Yet this team seemed totally stunned. 

That was like an 80% effort aside from TC and Garino. Can't prove that. But that's what it felt like. They made St. Joe's look like Oklahoma and half-assed in terms of hustle. Not seeing Matt Hart at all is lately is also frustrating. The bench is used as if the only players available are benchwarmers.

By: RKelley (152 posts) - 2/11/2016 9:33:22 PM

@Ziik

Joe is a good player but starting point guard? It should be a red flag when your starting point guard has the third best assist rate among your 3 point guards, a higher TO than A rate, the 7th best ORTG on the team, the 7th/6th best eFG%/TS%...

I didn't write Mitola should get Joe's minutes, I wrote that Mitola should start at point guard. Ideally it's not 90% of the minutes to your 5 starters like it was last night again. The 5 starters don't have absolutely better skills than the bench players...

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