should have handed the job to hajj4/20/2017 7:26:07 AM
Isn't this every transfer's dream situation?
1) Zero chance of making the NCAA tournament? Check.
2) Stagnant offense losing its top scorer? Check.
3) Infighting within the coaching staff? Check.
4) Starting PG publicly dissing the coach? Check.
5) Lack of faith in how the coach handles locker room situations? Check.
6) A lame duck coach on a non-guaranteed contract who is gone the moment the new President brings in his own guys? Check.
7) A rumored NCAA Countable Athletically Related Activity violation is looming over the men's program, making it easy for commits to de-commit and go to another school without penalty? Check.
I can't wait for Kilgore to interview the outgoing players and put that article out there.
furdusi4/20/2017 9:28:58 AM
Annoying people at gwhoops posting alternative facts? Check
thinker4/20/2017 10:26:03 AM
Thanks for the update Maggie!
bo knows4/20/2017 10:43:38 AM
Thinker, I've tried to stay quiet but these kind of posts are ridiculous. There is aboslutely zero reason to involve Maggie in this unless you know FOR A FACT she is posting here. It's pretty low to involve ML's wife in this. What's next his kids?
gw694/20/2017 10:51:59 AM
I know I shouldn't comment on on anyone's mental health without
seeing them in my office---but the poster is anonymous(as am I) and
the following is not a diagnosis.;I am concerned about this person.
Why?There joylessness of life is apparent in there compulsive
postings.As a psychotherapist Im aware that personality can get in the
way of ones Soul or conversely the Soul(ones authentic Self)can support
the personality in ways that enhance a persons path through life.
Please get some help--I know on some level you are aware of your
unhappiness.I'm trying not to be patronizing--I mean what I say.
boom4/20/2017 12:46:49 PM
How many of these does one need to read before you realise the game being played? Should be rather obvious the source. Just click block and ignore. To the few fans who seem to encourage 'the other side of the story' please stop doing that you are helping create a very fixable problem by egging on the trolling. And to the person typing all of these please seek help for your sake and all of ours but above all the program we all care about which you are harming by doibg this
ruserious4/20/2017 1:10:43 PM
I have no doubt whatsoever that both ML and his wife post here
iamserious4/20/2017 1:59:46 PM
I wish ML and his wife did post here. The more the better. Right now it appears nobody gives a poop what we think except the 18 of us who post using 18 different aliases each!
bobo4/20/2017 2:02:19 PM
Bo is correct here regarding Thinkers post. There's no evidence that the above post was written by Mrs Lonergan. It's a smear and a lie for Thinker to say so on this thread.
Maybe you don't care about your credibility on this board, Thinker, but since you've been on this board for years, my guess is that you do. If so, don't lie about people and you shouldn't try to smear innocent people with out any evidence for your claims.
newgwfan4/20/2017 2:17:40 PM
The fact of the matter is that any time someone says something critical of the administration or how things are being run, people bust out their cute little hashtags with BowieStrong and all this other nonsense to divert any criticism.
What amazes me is how ML is radioactive to a basketball program while in this offseason alone two coaches Chris Jan and Derrick Kellogg both received new HC jobs despite clearly more unethical and potentially criminal behavior. Regardless what you think about ML I don't think he committed any crimes, do you?
shofaz14/20/2017 2:27:44 PM
what is the thing with starting PG dissing the new coach? I must have mssed that
gw694/20/2017 3:10:15 PM
The fact of the matter NewGWFan---is that anytime posters suggest
that ML must have played a role in his dismissal a certain group
goes ape shit and tries to parse whatever they can to restore his
self--damaged reputation.I have no doubt the admin has issues that
need addressing.---but it was ML's behavior that got the ball rolling.
bigfan4/20/2017 3:27:29 PM
Yes, why would we want the whole story when it is so apparent from the newspaper article and the university comments, publicly and privately to even the big supporters here.
Best to judge things from the authorized comments.
Without going into the id or the ego, much less the super-ego, maybe something quite possibly innocent and to be fair not hidden, but appearing to at least undercut a coach's authority, set the ball rolling.
And caused a complaint and a bad joke, that along with several other comments milder than what the great Tom Izzo, Hurley and many other coaches say every day.
Then a grudge match spiral culminating in a death penalty that is affecting the team, imploding as we speak.
And frankly, any attempt at civil discourse here.
the mv4/20/2017 3:32:53 PM
it's not fair to say that everyone who is perceived as pro-Lonergan is the same. Some, as GW69 says, may very well want to say or do anything to restore his reputation. Then there are others like myself. And Bigfan, and LSF and Bobo, and others as well (sorry to the three of you in advance if I'm about to mischaracterize any of your positions). Here is we're coming from.
We are well aware that ML has been fired due to his behavioral issues. What we are not aware of are the contextual circumstances that led to his firing. For example, according to the Kilgore article:
ML proposed that one of his players transfer to a transgender league. A story relayed here was that this player, during the height of the Caitlyn Jenner publicity, wore pink sneakers to practice one day as a joke which prompted ML's joking response in return. For argument's sake, if this was true, should ML have lost his job over this?
ML disappointingly said to one of his players that he and his family would be on food stamps if he continued to play like that. Was that a joke? Of course it was. Was it in bad taste? Can definitely but not necessarily be construed as such. Should he have lost his job over this?
Nero requested a copy of a practice tape one day since he had been banned from attending practices. ML remarked that the reason why PN wants the tape is so that he could masturbate to it. Yes, this one appears to be the most damning of the three examples. However, why would ML make this remark? Even if he was purely joking, wouldn't that joke have to be based on something? If the alleged rumor of PN making advances towards one of his players is true, wouldn't you be able to better understand why ML made the comment? Even if you still couldn't defend it, and I understand that there are people who could care less what PN ever said or did, it's an inexcusable comment in their minds, would it make any difference if something provoked ML into making that remark?
So in my mind, restoring ML's name is very secondary in my mind. It takes a backseat to first learning why Ml's behavior was what it was. Context and circumstances should matter.
ziik4/20/2017 3:43:01 PM
If the PN advances rumor were true, or even plausibly so, MLs recourse was to report it up the chain of command. Chatting about an alleged sexual impropriety is pretty dumb, as there surely are university protocols in place. And, if he'd been warned about stuff even remotely like that, well, the guy was a jerk.
(I say this even though I would prefer ML stayed)
gw694/20/2017 3:53:13 PM
Clearly no resolution on this board.I just don't have it in me to care enough
about the"circumstances" around his dismissal.I know it may be of legitimate
concern to several of you--but for me it's just a sideshow to the fact that
ML was an immature baby of a person who knew his X's and O's and
not much else.He got as far as he could with his limited emotional
repetoire.He had a good career and blew it.Next.If Thinker and others
like Boom want to fight the good fight I will read their posts with great
interst--I'm done on this topic.I guess I have empathy fatigue.
thinker4/20/2017 5:04:54 PM
I've tried extensively to explain how the whole firing would have played out internally at GW and what the basis were, what the rationale would have been and how it would have to be characterized and the strategies employed to reduce ML's ability to successfully sue the university. I get that you're not a lawyer and perhaps have a harder time understanding the legal nuances of my explanations. Perhaps my broader organizational/polical analysis of GW and the dynamics of crisis in large organizations seems too dense to be helpful.
But to say ML was fired because of what Kilgore wrote is almost a childlike oversimplification. He wasn't fired because he told some kid he'd never get off food stamps or that he should transfer to a tranny league or because he called the UMASS kid "the gay guy." (Whether he actually said those specific things or not - I wouldn't know.)
FUNDAMENTALLY ML was fired because he was not able to maintain a postive relationship with his bosses and had become a toxic force at the school and with the players. I believe that GW tried a number of times to get ML to behave better, but to no effect. In fact the situation only continued to escalate and become more toxic. Ultimately GW saw no other option but to sever ties with him -- Even if it had to happen at the most inconvenient time and in the most inconvenient way. GW accepted GIANT risks of all sorts to terminate him in this manner. That ABSOLUTELY TELLS us that GW saw all those risks still being less than the risks of keeping ML on. For an enormous multi-billion dollar organization that has ALWAYS been very risk averse - that's HUGELY TELLING.
You can't understand why ML was fired for callng kids cunts (or whatever)? I get that because he wasn't fired for those things. You can't look at all of this like you would a murder trial, because there you're looking to a very bottom line question of DID HE OR DIDN'T HE.
This isn't that. This isn't did he say this or not. This is an institutional decision that they could no longer accept the risk and problems that ML brought and created by his behavior. There doesn't need to be a smoking gun and maybe there isn't one anyway. It's an overall broad decision by GW.
wesuck4/20/2017 6:30:14 PM
Thinker, give it a rest and go out and get a job so you stop stalking us on this site. I liked it better when you went by the name "The Dude".
Maine Colonial, or should I say Steve Wyman, seems to be awfully quiet this afternoon. Thank you very much to the person who exposed this fraud. I can now add this to the list I give GW every time they hit me up for money (the list is getting long).
maine colonial4/20/2017 6:34:05 PM
Excuse me buster but I am not the one behind the recent troll attacks. I resent the fact that you are accusing me of such.
the dude4/20/2017 6:34:54 PM
Can we all just take a chill pill and stop pointing fingers? We are all GW fans, we all want the same thing. Come on people, for real!
wesuck4/20/2017 6:35:18 PM
I will point fingers all day long. Fuck you!
thinker4/20/2017 6:35:52 PM
Please everyone let's just get along for once. Please?
gw694/20/2017 6:36:27 PM
I'm done here.
wesuck4/20/2017 6:39:34 PM
Here we go again, someone highjacking another's user name. I'm done too.
gw694/20/2017 7:10:08 PM
That was not me--Lets go Herve--time for registration.
thinker4/20/2017 7:17:01 PM
That was not me at 6.35.52
gw694/20/2017 7:27:21 PM
That was not me at 7:10:08
thinker4/20/2017 8:11:44 PM
It's funny, the #BowieStrong crowd crowd starts this thread and then disrupts it when I fill the thread with clarity.
gw694/20/2017 8:29:34 PM
Exactly Thinker.--That was me at 7:10 by the way-time for registration.
bobo4/21/2017 12:09:26 AM
Thinker, then why do you make up lies about Mrs Lonergan? Seriously, why do you do it? You know you dony have any evidence that Mrs Lonergan wrote anything on this thread, but you claim she did.
It was brought up before and you didn't respond. I take it that you realize you were caught in a lie and had no way of responding without admitting what you did.
But thanks for bringing clarity.
think this4/21/2017 12:37:57 AM
Thinker is readily identifiable at Smitty - he is the guy with the voice coming out of his ass. He talks so much but admittedly knows nothing about the facts. He calls that "clarity". Most of us call that #fullofshit.
porter714/21/2017 1:09:07 AM
I really hope the point I think you are trying to make isn't true, because if so, I've lost even more respect for the administration's decision making ability. You are stating that he wasn't fired for the items in the article or the language that he used, but rather because of his bad relationship with his bosses. If it truly was a relationship issue, then there is no good reason to fire him at the time they did. The urgency of the siutation does not exist. You state "GW saw all those risks still being less than the risks of keeping ML on". If it is not a player safety issue, then what specific risks could GW have looked at that would have been so bad you risked the destruction of your successful basketball program? Name another situation where a successful coach was fired because of a relationship issue right before the start of a season and not a player safety or rules violation issue? I can't think of one.
Player safety is the only reason I can think of for an immediate dismissal. If that is the case, you can't let him go on the trip to Japan. You talk about liability. ML wasn't the only person who can sue. You know what's a bigger lawsuit. GW allowing ML to go on the Japan trip and something really bad happens. The fact that you are launching an investigation shows that you have knowledge of the potential risks, and letting ML go on the trip is a clear indication that you either ignored those risks, or that the risks weren't that great. If the potential risks weren't that great, you don't fire him right before the season.
Also, you point here about having to explain the situation to MV repeatedly actually bolsters MVs argument from other threads. You are saying it was a relationship issue, caused by MVs actions. However, many others here on the board, like Boom, state it was because he was abusive to his players. You state that isn't the reason. The fact that I hear 10 different reasons about why ML was fired proves the ineptitude of the administation. The most hard core of supporters should know the reason why the coach was fired. We don't, or else we wouldn't be arguing about it a year later.
thinker4/21/2017 2:08:53 AM
Let me put it a slightly different way - GW ultimately fired ML because he could not comply with the wishes of his bosses who were insistently trying to get him to moderate his toxic and destructive behavior. You make it sound like I made it sound like the problems were just personal or stylistic. His treatment of players was a central issue but the biggest problem was that when GW tried to get him to moderate his behavior, he accelerated it instead.
The escalation of his problematic behavior and the breakdown of his relationship with Nero and others in the face of the horrific publicity made maintaining the status quo impossible. I think previous complaints had been swept under the rug but the Post article forced more aggressive action. Once they saw the results of the investigation his continued employment was impossible. At that point there would be simply too much risk to keep him because they were on formal notice of his behavior. If a player sued after that GW would not be able to defend itself.
They didn't fire him because he and Nero didn't get along - they apparently hadn't gotten along for quite a while before his firing. But the open warfare spilled over everything - particulalry his treatment of the players. I believe that GW believed that they simply didn't have another option.
thinker4/21/2017 2:30:15 AM
I'm not sure where you keep coming up with the idea that ML having problems with Nero justifies or explains his bad behavior towards the players. One has nothing to do with the other
Whether you tell the players that your boss is masturbating in his office or whether you tell Smith Center employees or whoever you tell. You just can't say that kind of shit and hope to keep your job for a bunch of reasons. But I'm sure the problems were building for a long time and that were plenty of other things that happened that we don't know about.
the mv4/21/2017 10:07:04 AM
Thinker, it has everything to do with it. If I scream "fire" in a crowded movie theatre where there isn't a fire and you pull the fire alarm as a result of my having screamed, is this the same thing as if you were to pull the alarm completely on your own without any influence? Of course it isn't. What Lonergan said if reported accurately was wrong and I am not denying that an argument can be made that it is indefenseable no matter the circumstances. However, an argument can also be made that what ML said may be understandable if circumstances caused his frustration to boil over. Therefore, and I am not saying that this is exactly what happened, but if I can understand why ML was so angry that he felt the need to vent his frustrations, and that PN somehow through his words and/or actions is responsibile for driving ML to this point, then I can't conclude that ML was rightfully terminated. I am not saying that ML would have been correct in the way he handled things under this scenario. But, he would not have deserved to have been fired with cause either.
On a separate note, your last few posts have seemingly brought in a fair amount of new information surrounding why ML was terminated. Information that frankly, I have yet to see anyone here wholeheartedly agree with. The only evidence we've been working with is the Kilgore article but you seem to be offering your own insights as to "what really happened", separate from what was written in that article. Not sure if this is based on real conversations you've had with people in the know or whethere these are all speculative theories on your part, since you haven't made that answer at all clear.
ruserious4/21/2017 10:14:15 AM
I know a lot of what went on and what Thinkers says is very, very accurate.
the mv4/21/2017 10:53:35 AM
OK great. Thanks for elaborating. Your attention to detail is impeccable.
porter714/21/2017 11:08:27 AM
I think you are trying too hard to have it both ways. If the biggest problem was that he accelerated his behavior after being told to tone it down, then how could the results of an investigation be the reason why they had to move on? Wouldn't they have known that this behavior was becoming more problematic without an investigation? Did they have that little institutional knowledge of what was going on in their most important athletic program? If the investigation brought out additional instances of ML mistreatment they did not know about, then the firing would have been for the treatement of his players, and not for his attitude. i actually hope that is the case. As I've stated before, the only reason to make a rush decision at the point in time they did was if it was player safety related. My concern is still we have so little idea of what the results of the investigation were and what ML actually did, you still have people arguing about it to this day.
Also, you talk about the risks. What were the risks of the lawsuit? What specifically would or could a player sue for? Can you name another instance of a player suing his college program in a similar circumstance not related to player safety that is similar to this?
ruserious4/21/2017 12:03:32 PM
MV I have given many details over the last many months. But whenever someone posts something you don't want to believe you ignore it or sa they're lying.
It's like you are hell-bent on proving ML's innocence. Where is the lawsuit? Where is the large settlement? Not happening.
bobo4/21/2017 12:27:57 PM
RuS: How would you know any of the details? Do you work for GW?
boboy4/21/2017 12:29:46 PM
And why does Thinker think get can spread lies about Mrs Lonergan without being called out on it?
the mv4/21/2017 12:50:00 PM
Wrong RU. I haven't said that anyone was lying. All I've been trying to do all along is get to the bottom line truth. If you feel you have already provided this and agree with Thinker's narrative, why don't you indulge me once more and indicate specifics as to why ML was fired not due to what was reported in Kilgore's article but due to his inability to get along with his bosses and his behavior spiraling out of control after being forewarned. Again, I'm asking for specifics. If you have them, great, please share. Otherwise, please stop condemning anyone who would like specific answers that both the school as well as anyone on this site has failed to yet provide.
thinker4/21/2017 5:29:05 PM
I don't know what your professional background is, but the way the complicated legal/political decisions move down a path is that multiple things are happening at the same time. Each step is informed by all of the different events that are happening somewhat simultaneously. It's a very dynamic process where each step the different parties have the possibility of making things better or worse.
If you read all the stuff i've posted I've said that GW certainly understood that a lot of ML's behavior was problematic - though not necessarily the extent. I believe that GW wanted to avoid firing ML and swept things under the rug early on. I think ML was likely counseled in a variety of ways to stop acting the way he was acting.
It was certainly not a situation where everyone in the administration thought everything was absolutely fine and then one day the article came out and then the investigation and then they said OMG we had no idea - we have to fire him. I promise you this was not the way it transpired.
Problems arose and the administration kept thinking there must be a way to work our way through this. But ML instead kept acting worse not better. He kept escalating his war with Nero. When the story came out, the #BowieStrong people were openly at war with Nero and GW - making horrific claims and even using a player's name as having been romantically involved with Nero. As I said last Summer and again today, I'm pretty confident that this course chosen by ML and his #BowieStrong supporters made a comprmise by GW much less likely. It hardened positions such that a decision was made that there was no other course possible besides termination.
I don't know exactly when that decision was made - either before, during or after the results of the investigation. But if there was hope for a compromise or even a much better settlement offer by GW to ML - his absolute scorched earth strategy in the media, privately, and obviously on this board made that impossible. And did the investigation reveal something that required GW to fire ML or did the investigation give GW a much better legal way to fire him without paying off his contract? OR did the investigation, instead make GW more pissed off and so they just WANTED to fire him more? We are never going to know that and it could be some combination of all. Becasue that's the way dynamic processes work.
It's not a black and white thing that you seem to be trying to portray it.
As to liability if GW doesn't fire ML AFTER the investigation. The most obvious risk is the Government or a player suing GW for failure to enforce Title IX. Once there is that formal and credible legal record of whatever ML's misdeeds were, GW would be in an impossible liegal situation vis-a-vis Title IX. Which is not to say that ML was fired for violation of Title IX because he wasn't.
bobo4/21/2017 5:39:34 PM
Well Thinker, you would know all about making false claims on this board...you did so on this very tread.
a real colonial4/22/2017 12:12:39 AM
Thinker is pushing Nero's agenda along with Boom, PJ, Maine Colonial(Steve), GW69, Dude and their other fake names. His legal b.s. is humorous. The truth is that ML did not have a toxic relationship with his bosses and players as Thinker tries to get MV and others to believe. ML was beloved by the administration and faculty. His team won the NIT and went 4-0 in Japan because Nero wasn't allowed near them ans the chemistry was excellent. ML pushes his players as athletes and students. Most of his players liked him and all respected him. Most posters on this board liked ML. No poster here can truthfully say they heard ML say anything bad. He didn't call Gordon the gay kid. He tried to recruit Gordon. Call Gordon and ask him instead of believing the lies of Thinker.
GW and Nero had no problems with ML as evidenced by the 7 year contract he received after turning down BC. None of us fans heard him say a negative word about Nero or a homophobic word. Ask the players if ML was homophobic. They will say no. They will all say the allegations were false just as Creek, Park and Zeke did in the Washington Post.
4 ML players left the program this month. They would all be here if ML was here. Ask them. ML never made jokes about pink sneakers or transgender leagues or masturbation. Ask the players or coaches. It was all anonymous false allegations. Thinker is trying to convince people that ML was guilty yet when anyone questions this because there is no evidence or named source they get the legal b.s. or get accused of being Mrs. Lonergan. He can't give truthful answers because he knows ML is innocent.
ML reported inappropriate behavior of an administrator and then anonymous allegations started. It was retaliation for blowing the whistle on his boss. No one will ever post their name on here saying they heard ML make a homophobic statement because it didn't happen. Instead they will badmouth anyone that posts the truth or badmouth his players that were smart enough to abandon this sinking ship. I live in Bowie and am proud of it. Is Thinker racist because he is always speaking negatively of this prestigious African American community many GW alumni call home? Those of you who are smart enough to figure out the railroading of ML was to cover up and protect something else please don't let Thinker convince you that ML was guilty of being abusive or homophobic. Ask the players and parents of the players. Would Adam Mitola come play for an abusive homophobic coach? Even a fool knows the parents wouldn't send their second son to play for ML if they didn't respect and like him. Roland wouldn't go play for the best friend of his abuaive coach. It just takes common sense to know what really happened with Nero. The empire is crumbling and even Thinker can't b.s. us anymore into thinking ML was guilty. He got screwed and the players and fans realize it. We got screwed because our program is destroyed. MoJo got the job to keep him and others quiet. He and ML were very close and MoJo knows ML is innocent. He spent almost 10 years with ML. GW won't even let him say ML's name. Everything is scripted. The posts by MC and NJ Colonial are scripted by an administrator at GW. The charade isn't working anymore. Do you really expect is to believe that MoJo's recruits are better than Marfo, a Big East/ACC level recruit? Ripping Sina and other players is disgraceful. These are quality kids who were used to hurt ML. They couldn't leave on September 18th when ML was terminated but they are leaving now. One more will be gone soon and I can't wait to see how Maine Colonial spins it.
I am a fan of GW Basketball and of ML and hate to see his reputation and our program ruined to cover for someone else because of political reasons. My son is gay but I hate people playing the gay card.
Thinker will never post any facts that prove ML was counseled or reprimanded in any way because it didn't happen. Knapp and Lerman loved ML as did Cisneros, Levine and Ramsey. Nero and Maltzman are to blame for destroying ML and the program. Fake News and message board liars should be questioned and exposed. Maine Colonial, GW69 and Thinker are not as smart as they think they are and are working overtime for their buddy Pat. Don't believe their b.s. anymore.
thinker4/22/2017 12:42:50 AM
You're up late tonight Maggie, you should get some sleep.
If everyone at GW just LOVED ML except for that dastardly brute Nero who hated him, why would they retaliate against ML when he blew the whistle on the dastardly Nero? The gay cabal theory again?
gw hoop scoop4/22/2017 1:30:10 AM
Real colonial is 100% Mike Lonergan
gw hoop scoop4/22/2017 1:31:34 AM
Good to see ya, coach!
porter714/22/2017 1:33:52 AM
A couple of points.
First, I am also a lawyer. I get complexity and fluid situations where the actions of one part leads to counter actions by another. In my experience though, we have contingency plans to account for changes in circustances.
My issue has always been that nothing in the GW's administrations process leads me to believe they weighed all of their options and made a decision based on calm reflection after reviewing all the facts and identifying all contengency plans. If that was the case, you don't get radio silence about the future coach for a week after the dismissal, then interview 3 assistants. You know who the successor is going to be before you move forward. I don't see how anyone advises the univerity, be it in a legal or PR capacity, to make a change at the highest profile position at the university without a decision on what happens next unless it is absolutely necessary. Player safety is the only situation I see fitting that description. You don't destroy everything you worked so hard to build without knowing what happens next.
Your last post now mentions that #BowieStrong was a cause of the firing, or potential settlement. That's even worse. You don't try to work out a solution because you don't like what his friends are saying in the media and it pissed you off? How short sighted is that? That is making a decision based on emotions, not the best interest of the university. I'd like to think we are better than that.
I can't believe for a second that anything written on this board could impact the decision of the administration. If it does, they should be fired. I love this board and think Herve does a great job, but lets be real. This board is small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. Its got about 50-100 posters depending on what is going on, and I'm guessing about 500 casual readers at most. That is nothing. It's a niche website. If the administration makes decisions or gets spooked by what is said here, then we really are a small time program.
Finally, the Maggie joke wasn't funny the first time you said it. Its still not funny. I get that you are trying to troll people. You can't make bad jokes you know will annoy people, then complain about the negativity on the board.
the dude4/22/2017 1:39:23 AM
My favorite highlight of the latest fiction from the self professed Bowie poster "Everything is scripted. The posts by MC and NJ Colonial are scripted by an administrator at GW. "
Well this has to be about the 200th post from the same guy with an evolving set of fictions. Should be very clear to any daily reader of this board who it is that is posting these. I normally just click the block button and avert the eyes of the lies, but in this case I think its worth pointing out to the very few who have shown indications of occassionally being influenced and seem to encourage more of these posts (mostly you BigFan) the same guy who claimed "Herve was bought off" now thinks NJ Colonial and GW 69 et al are typing scripted posts from the Admins.
In the words of another "Bowie" man "Turn and Face the strange"
kingdom of the sun4/22/2017 6:58:50 AM
Spot on Porter!!!!! Maybe if GW had Porter advising them we wouldn't be in this mess. Post of the Year so far!!!!
question4/22/2017 8:54:59 AM
Is there any truth to the CARA violation and the impending practice sanctions?
thinker4/22/2017 10:08:22 AM
I appreciate your post, Porter.
My recent posts have been about how GW likely came to the decision to part ways with ML. That I see the decision flow chart as having a degree of logic to it does not mean I think GW handled it well or that they couldn't have done a lot of things in a smarter way. Particularly the end - the announcement of the firing itself, the long silence, the lack of an immediate interim coach -- all that and more seems to have been poorly planned out and implemented. To say GW reached a point where they had no alternative to firing ML ISN'T to say it was a smart process. I'm pretty sure I've never said GW handled this well.
The fact that the whole battle with ML is still ongoing there still appears to be tension/turmoil on the coaching staff also makes one question how much forward thinking vs reactive thinking has been done.
If I were doing a "lessons learned" study for GW I'd bet that I would find a point in time MUCH earlier - probably very close to the time of the first Title IX investigation - when a much more aggressive management intervention might have prevented all of this.
Here is an amazing article that discusses "disaster science" that I think is a useful starting point to examining how disasters that shouldn't be able to happen, nonetheless happen.
How the Oscars got screwed up
I believe everything really got off track during the first Title IX investigation when it appears that GW somewhat brushed aside the player complaints. This seems to be where the ML and Nero battle began. I'd imagine that ML felt his behavior had been vindicated and validated by GW, though I imagine GW counseled ML to behave better. When GW through Nero decided to implement some type of monitoring regime everything went haywire.
Somewhere here is when GW should have had the "intervention." And maybe they tried but ML maybe just responded "fine, then fire me." ML likely had his new contract at this point and found it easy to say "why is Nero pissing on me? I'm the star coach here." There's no way GW could have fired ML at that point, and everything would have been fine if ML has just swallowed hard, bit his tongue about Nero and worked hard at being less "intense" with the players. Instead everything escalted to insane degrees.
So don't look at the NEXT summer when GW let ML go to Japan or fired him a week before practice and ask why couldn't they sit down and work it out. The time for that came and went about a year earlier. Once he made the masturbation comments to the players there was probably no going back. His career was dead but it took many months for that to become apparent.
Finally my comments that GW did not handle things well at various points don't change the reality that ML is the fundamental and primary source of what happened to him.
I advise LOTS of people in various types of crisis. If I had been advising ML throughout I would have told him
1. I get it you think Nero is being unfair and going after you
2. I get it that your coaching "style" has been proven successful and kids shouldn't be coddled
3. I get it that you've built something pretty darn good at GW
4. I get it you think GW would never fire you because of your contract
5. But don't overplay your hand. Keep your head down, just focus on toning things down with the players. Because YOU NEVER KNOW how things play out and you've got a pretty sweet thing here that you don't want to screw up for yourself.
If only ML had taken my hypothetical advice, he'd most definitely still be at GW.
So, Porter while everyone likely wishes that both sides could have sat down and worked things out before things got to this point -- maybe GW tried and ML simply wasn't willing to give an inch. It certainly seems to me that ML still to this day has never given an inch on ANYTHING.
gw694/22/2017 10:46:59 AM
A Real Colonial --I have no agenda--I don't know ANY of the participants
in this saga. Not a one.I am a semi-retired therapist with my own
opinion on these matters--and of course you have yours.I am no more
than a slightly more than casual fan of GW b-ball- and have been for
many decades.---That's it.
haha4/22/2017 1:07:56 PM
And the whole shit starts all over again. I honestly feel like some posters really wanted to post "the truth" of all the chaos (whether it's real truth or fake truth), but they are holding back for a so-called "better timing" and feel really PROUD of knowing the secret without telling other..LOL...loser mentality.
1. your opinion can hardly be identified as "truth" as there are no way to prove it (the best argument is "trust me", nah, ain't nobody trusting nobody at this point).
At the end of the day, no one can tell whether we are hearing "fact", "partial fact", "opinion", or "straight lie".
True fans will move on. It's not the end of the world. Some fake fans are getting used to 20+ wins and think GW will be this consistent moving forward. So let me tell you, it's not happening! Ups and downs are something you just have to embrace. But calm down, GW is not shutting down tomorrow.
If you think Nero is wrong, why don't you go to WaPo and ask them to post another story? If posting here won't help, all you doing now is defaming the program (or in your words, this program is on life support!!! life support your ass LOL). Stop being a keyboard warrior and shut your baby ass up. Leave a healthy environment for the rest of us who truly love GW basketball. Some of you seem only to love drama. Sorry, we don't have that section on this board. Get the fuck outta here LOL.
OKOK, now I understand, your real job is a keyboard warrior. Then don't hold your fire. Some fake ass shit LOL.
PS: we all know for a fact that school administrators will be looking at this site. It's not like they are stupid enough to think GW fans don't have a place to chat...
the mv4/22/2017 1:19:33 PM
Thinker, a word of advice. Please stop posting here in such a way to lead people to believe that you know exactly what happened when it is abundantly clear that you know as little about the actual truth as myself and many others. A few too many sentences on your part starting with "I think", "I believe"' "I feel", and "I imagine". Feel free to give your opinions but please stop stating them as facts.
the dude4/22/2017 1:35:14 PM
Thinker's post is I believe very close to how things played out.
Arriving at the obvious most logical conclusion also doesn't mean you have "an agenda" I don't believe any GW fan thinks this was good for GW.
The part of Thinker's post I find most compelling is that GW did likely somewhat overlook the intial player complaints and Title IX investigation, because they actually do care about winning and because a public scandal involving the most public face of the University is best to avoid if at all possible. That was their agenda, and its mine as well as an avid fan and alum. Period.
bobo4/22/2017 1:48:08 PM
MV's point is correct in that "Thinker"s entire premise is pure speculation. He presents himself as an expert on this matter but has little inside information. He's never liked ML and said so since ML's first days at GW. Most of the posts on this board are biased in some ways (because we all have biases). "Thinker" is in the same boat so take everything he says with a giant mountain of salt.
And he continues to blatantly lie about Mrs Lonergan on this very thread so we know for a fact that thruth and reality mean very little to "Thinker" anyways.
bigfan4/22/2017 2:08:03 PM
None of us wanted drama--and if this was handled without hugely overreacting to some throway comments, even if they were made, óur program wouldn't be imploding.
If you think it isn't imploding, read the article about Jordan leaving with a named source.
Only opinion is we don't know anything.
But believe in both sides of a story being told and unhappy about program being blown up for vagaries. And having an odd set set of circumstances in "moving on." A no-bid contract with a new coach who worked under the old one, along with the same, allegedly feuding staff.
Every time someone comes on with any sort of information different that the narrative, it is shouted down with code words like "gay cabal" or Mrs. Lonergan posting. ML might or might not have said some intemperate things, but nothing shown so far indicates he is a homophobe.
From observation simply as a GW fan, Mrs. Lonergan is a very nice woman and a very good mother who has helped familiies of players and should not be brought into this debate.
Despite the pain of reading the posts here, this board is really doing a service to GW fans, especially those who care enough to not just dismiss it by saying it's over (ask Jordan Roland if its over). If it was over, this nonsense wouldn't still be playing out and we'd have some real information.
It's the only place where there is actual information being occasionally disseminated.
Have to wade through a ton of odiferous crap before any actual information is revealed,which is unpleasant. But such is the price of freedom of speech
fredd4/22/2017 2:25:39 PM
I wonder how many of these threads would exist if the the people who were (on the whole) supportive of the decision to fire ML didn't respond to the crazy troll bs?
haha4/22/2017 2:52:29 PM
I'm targeting those who claim to know A LOT about the situation but either trolling around or refuse to speak up, but just kept on teasing people here and there. I'm just afraid that when some may be taken over by their emotions already even when they are stating facts.
the dude4/22/2017 2:59:42 PM
Not responding to the crazy troll BS is surely the way to go. I strongly urge BF (and maybe a few others?) in particular to stop encouraging it, how crazy do the posts go before you realize how ficticious they are? Perhaps if the next post is that "NJ Colonial and GW69 are not just reading Admin scripts" but they are space aliens sent by from the future by Nero heirs?
Bobo, I'd say Thinker's post was more conjecture tying together known facts than "pure speculation." With regard to biases, many of the supposed Nero script readers were huge ML fans. I guess Thinker was an exception but I'll leave that to him to speak to. Is there a single GW fan whose bias would not have been to have the investigation to be found baseball and ML continue on as HC unaffected??
When the WaPo story broke, the first 44 to comment on the thread "Great Publicity" were all "wow this is terrible, ML said these things, he is going to have to be fired, etc etc" Almost all of them simply long ago stopped weighing in, the crazy troll has a welcoming audience of 1, perhaps 2. By encouraging those posts you are really doing anyone who comes here for actual discussion or information a real disservice. Worst yet, harmful to the program, and fosters this unneccessary narrative that GW needlessly imploded the program. C'mon.
the dude4/22/2017 3:01:58 PM
*baseless (silly auto-correct)
thinker4/22/2017 6:11:35 PM
I suspect that mostly only GW69 will totally get this but there is no absolute truth. There are no absolute facts. Facts and truth are constructs built from conscious and subconscious biases, perspectives that are informed by a lifetime of experiences that fall into the category of "I don't know what I know."
And of course this is even before you get into agendas and grudges.
Obviously everyone is free to construct their own reality any way they want. MV, I appreciate you advice to help me reform my own reality or to present it to third parties in a manner that fits better with your reality. But I will persist in expressing my truth in a manner that is truthful to me.
I will add that I even think that ML, Maggie and the whole #BowieStrong community may actually "believe" that Nero and the gay cabal manufactured the issues that lead to his firing. Otherwise why on earth would they still be here 8 months later posting this shit? This is not going to get his job back and it's not going to get his reputation back. Again maybe GW69 can speak to this but it almost feels pathological.
In the meantime I will continue to speak my truth as long as the middle earthers continue to post theirs.
ruserious4/22/2017 8:54:40 PM
"bobo" you seem awfully fixated on Mrs. Lonergan.
I've said it before but people who want to get an idea about some of what went on need to read, and I mean really read and digest Thinker's posts. They are so close to the truth that it's mindblowing.
thinker4/22/2017 9:18:53 PM
In response to your post - I guess my bias is in favor of GW the institution. I don't know if I'd recognize Nero if I ran into him. I don't know anything about him or care either way beyond my general concern for miscellaneous people in general.
I never met ML, was against his hiring, thought he'd have a hard time recruiting, ran a boring system - flex - that i thought great athletes would not want to play in. I was surprised but he proved me mostly wrong. Along the way I came to see that he could win at GW in way I thought was impossible. Also along the way I came to see that he had bad pr sense. There were always a lot of horrible optics with him. I came to see that he was not a very nice person.
All of these things I posted over the years. I also never liked him as the face of GW. I never personally felt good about him. But he undeniably put a winning program together. If he could have behaved better towards his players and bosses I would have had no problem with him staying for as long as he wanted.
But he didn't behave better, in fact he behaved atrociously. I love GW a lot more than I love winning basketball games they way he won them. I am not willing to pay the price of winning at GW if it means accepting someone who behaves like him and his whole crew.
Ultimately I'm pretty surprised how many people here can turn a blind eye to his behavior because he was able to finish 3rd - or whatever - in the A10. When i was a student i lived in the dorm with a bunch of players who were great friends. I read the stories and i try to imagine my buddies getting treated like that.
So I guess I have another bias - for the players to be able to be treated with dignity and respect as they get an education and perform for the fans.
Beyond that I am always trying to figure out why people do what they do.
gw64/22/2017 9:38:06 PM
Lately I just focus on are my patients thoughts,feelings and behaviors
congruent----this leaves out things about truths--for the most part.
Does their ""reality work for them?--that's different than what's true.
My "truth" as a person or a therapist is not particularly curative--but if I can
help them get their reality to work better for them,then they will be
"functioning" much better.As you suggest there is no absolute "truth"
I like to think of everything as a "partial truth".
As to the Bowie Strong group?--"idee fixe"--check out the definition--
just a provisional notion.
the dude4/22/2017 11:15:28 PM
Thinker, you are hardly alone, lets recall that Nero was a virtual non-topic here, other than the occassional "wow the Athletic programs are doing great across the board" mention. The effort to turn the issue from "ML's unprofessional conduct" into a ML/Nero bias thing was part of the misinformation campaign. Laughable, we're all super Nero biased!? Nero??
There's 1 poster here who has worked very hard for years to turn everything into a pro/con litmus test. I'm sure you are aware who, in fact in a post not that long ago you delineated the ongoing years long effort by that 1 person to deceive the entire board.
This whole pro/anti ML thing is an invented fiction, people here are pro GW hoops, and as GW hoops was doing well, were very/largely pleased with ML. Pleased with Nero in a more passing mention sense too. "Are you pro or anti ML" was a bizarre playbook to shut down discussion. I was supposedly "Anti-ML" because I was concerned about 3+ years of HS recruiting. Upon reading the WaPo story, if one voiced a belief in its contents (as almost every poster did, at least once, with a few very repitive dissenters) there's been an effort to pin that as "anti-ML and pro Nero."
The bias here is to GW basketball. So much so that it colors a lot of the mitigation to what you rightfully say was atrocious behavior. ML was winning, the bias regarding him and this story was based almost entirely on that. If he had mediocre or poor success I don't think anyone here would be refusing to believe what was a rather obviously true and deeply sourced story. One reinforced by GW's decision after the investigation, the termination for cause, without pay and to date, no settlement, ML's toxicity in the industry, etc.
Having long ago personally reached that obvious conclusion against my own bias that he have stayed, I've been onto the next GW era, and making the best of a tough situation left behind. I highly recommend that.
reality4/22/2017 11:15:50 PM
It's not about ML. It's about the players leaving with the current coach.
thinker4/23/2017 1:02:41 AM
GW69 - interesting initial diagnosis. Do you like the broader monomania notion better? It seems like the #BowieStrong people have a broad range of fixations.
Dude, very thoughtful post.
Reality (20716), Four players leaving is all about MoJo? Did you ever take a giant shit, flush it and return an hour later and the bathroom still stinks? Firing ML wasn't ever going to get all the stink out right away.
reality4/23/2017 7:21:56 AM
Yes, 4 players leaving is about MoJo and how unprepared he is:
"Pete Lobello, Roland's AAU coach, said the George Washington program was "becoming a toxic situation."
"There was some internal squabbling going around,'' Lobello said. "It kind of turned him off right away ... During the year, there were some situations that arose that maybe weren't handled the way he thought they were. He was afraid moving forward, would it be handled correctly? He would have played. I just think it was more internal faith in how the whole thing was being run. Some of the assistants I don't believe were getting along great and it was pretty obvious."
gw694/23/2017 9:33:42 AM
Goddamn it Thinker--forcing me to to go back and look up shit!!
Actually--An interesting and very subtle distinction that I will now ponder.
Enjoy your posts.
gw05094/23/2017 10:37:50 AM
The players we lost this year are FAR more inconsequential than the loss UMASS experienced this year.
cjs fans post4/23/2017 10:44:36 AM
Players know the difference between a good coach and a bad coach:
"I asked Mojo about an incident I saw in the pre-game warmup at the UIC game in Chicago during the CBI tournament. Jair Bolden appeared to publically "diss" Coach Mojo with a kind of "whatever" grimace along with some undiscernable words (Jair was doing some pass drills when Mojo uttered some emphatic coaching points to Jair, about twenty feet away). Mojo got defensive, saying he did not recall, asking me for details and finally saying he respects young players who are not drones but can speak their minds.
When pressed on Roland, Mojo hinted that Jordan was an introvert who had come to dislike his GW experience. The coach hinted that Roland was immature. We left it at that."
notta hater4/23/2017 11:21:13 AM
I have had to elevate managers of divisions in acting and permanent capacities. It's tough when you are selecting an acting person because everyone in the division gets hit with a thing called illusory superiority (akin to the lake wobegon effect) and thinks he or she is the natural path to succession because he/she has the longest list of accomplishments etc. It's tough for the acting head to heal the bruises sustained by the ones not selected. Frankly, the person who makes the selection is really responsible to be frank with the ones not selected with a frank discussion of the factors used in making the determination and what the expectations will be for them (including if needed, "I will also be looking at you and holding you accountable if I notice that you are not supporting the mission" statement). I don't get the idea that this was done - i.e. there were no accountabilities or clarity at the suite-level. The fact that Mojo won anywhere near the number of games and kept this thing from falling apart in a real way is an amazing feat. The ones on his staff who don't buy-in or seek to undermine him will be easy to spot soon. Further, I am not sure the market will be kind to them if folks see them as toxic and undermining and they are forced out.
reality4/23/2017 11:31:50 AM
But when everybody knows he got the job for the wrong reasons, that's got to be frustrating for a better coach. Hajj and Carm have to be better with the X's and O's. They just cost more. And weren't almost fired by Nero.
thinker4/23/2017 11:34:29 AM
NONE of the players' experience at GW began with MoJo as the coach. Returning players all got to live through the horror of the last year or two of the ML dysfunction and the horrific horror of the Post article, the investigation, all the speculation, the firing, and the aftermath. And everyone had to endure the last year of whether MoJo would keep his job or not. None could really leave until now. And up until this moment MoJo still does not have a clean slate because the assistant coaches are still on the team (for now). Freshmen got to start their GW experience with a summer of shit.
So yes that's a ton of stress and uncertainty, and I imagine that would wear many people down. I would imagine that this would be an extremely tough environment to have experienced for just about any young person. It's an environment that MoJo didn't create, nor did he have the power to control it. That he did control it to an extent such that the team consistently played well, won 20 games, and didn't have open obvious strife is remarkable.
So it's not surprising that some of the players want to get out. Who could blame any of them if they wanted to leave? It's part of the ongoing price we are paying for all the shit that ML left us with. To the extent that anyone deserves anything, Roland deserved better than he got from GW. I hope Roland goes somewhere stable and scores 25 points a game.
gw694/23/2017 11:35:55 AM
Really interesting post Notta.
thinker4/23/2017 11:38:01 AM
EXCELLENT post, Notta!
I've made note of it to incorporate into my work, thanks!
roland4/23/2017 11:58:57 AM
Next year's team is going to be awful. Nobody wants to come off the bench on a bad team that lost to a 13-17 team in the CBI.
pj4/23/2017 12:13:21 PM
Jordan Roland was the reason GW lost in the CBI. 50 minutes, 4 points look it up. GW will be fine onward and upward.
pj the poster sucks4/23/2017 12:47:25 PM
What is the difference between PJ and the shit stain in my toilet ... not much. PJ will not be fine onward and downward.
gw724/23/2017 1:03:26 PM
Thinker and Dude, keen insights. Sharp posts. To be frank before this story broke I could not even name the AD.
the mv4/23/2017 1:11:33 PM
Notta, the ones who don't buy-in or who seek to undermine MoJo will be easy to spot soon? When? This really might be the most dysfunctional coaching situation I have ever witnessed.
1. Least experienced and qualified of three assistants gets the interim head coaching job, including over an Associate Head Coach.
2. The two passed-over assistants remain on staff, presumably because it's too late in the game to find work elsewhere or perhaps for GW to replace them.
3. MoJo gets signed long-term.
4. A newspaper report cites JR's AAU coach as indicating that part of the reason for JR's transfer was due to the coaching staff not being on the same page. This was observed during the season (assistants sometimes looking disinterested or not very engaged) but this article marks the first time someone acknowledges this on the record.
5. Somehow, as of today, the coaching staff remains in tact. An educated opinion is that perhaps MoJo has not been given the freedom to make changes because these coaches are under contract and can not be released with cause. This results in what looks like a less than harmonious coaching staff getting ready to work together for another year.
long suffering fan4/23/2017 1:12:43 PM
am I the only one concerned that it is April 22nd and we have maybe 5 players (Yuta, Steeves, Toro, Smith and Bolden)? Plus 2 lowly rated frosh. Please tell me I am missing someone. I must be the only one concerned as everyone else seems obsessed over what bad deeds the former coach may or may not have done.
gw694/23/2017 1:39:14 PM
LSF--Your problem is that you live in the present.You need to spend some
time ruminating about the past.
2twotoed4/23/2017 1:46:31 PM
I'm very concerned we have not picked up anyone yet that will be able to play at a high level. GW really needs to add transfer or 3 to give the program some credibility. Time is not our ally.
notta hater4/23/2017 1:52:29 PM
MV, I don't have any inside information and am disecting and intuiting the facts from what has been posted on the board, social media and news items. It kind of looks like three things: MoJo was told not to make changes; MoJo had the liberty to make changes while acting and intentionally did not because he felt the downside was not worth the incremental upside; or, a suite-level person who ultimately is in charge chose to let things just drift along and did not use common executive leadership principles in articulating his expectations to everybody. As to finding who the underminers are going forward (if that's the case) experience tells me that it is going to be easy to identify quickly - including putting some of them directly in charge of measurable things, being very specific what the expectations, deliverables and accountabilities are and then can them if they fail - i.e. they hold up their end of the bargain by being empowered to act and getting the support they need. The failures will be theirs to own. They will come along or they will resign quickly before they tarnish their "brand" --
roland4/23/2017 1:54:11 PM
Don't blame the loss to UIC on Jordan Roland... blame it on the coaching and the atmosphere in the locker room:
"They got taken apart by a freshmen dominated 7th place in the Horizon University of Illinois - Chicago team in the CBI Monday night."
"On reflection, I would not put too much into this loss. On one hand, don't think our heart was really in it and I hardly thought we put forth our best effort. (In one play, UIC threw a lob over Smith that resulted in a dunk in which Smith didn't even jump). For whatever reason, the requisite effort needed to play defense just wasn't there. On offense, there was no semblence of a team. It seemed that many on the team had already checked out for the summer (or perhaps the team...we will see). On the other hand, this was a signature win for UIC, which is trying to establish themselves as a legitimate basketball program. I believe they may have led the nation in increase in wins from last season. The game meant far more to them than it did to us...and it showed. "
"I was one of the ten people who watched the game. If anyone else who also watched saw what you could deem as adequate defensive effort, then you were either watching a different game than I or you have never seen a game of basketball before. Just how many times does one need to see UIC alone on a break or blowing by a defender before it clicks that maybe the effort just isn't there. And I don't really blame them. It has been a long season, and then to have to fly half way across the country to play a nobody team in a nobody tournament would not motivate very many to give it its best (with some exception). Now...would you like me to go through Jair's stat line for you?"
thinker4/23/2017 2:13:09 PM
I think the cbi game was the result of an emotionally and otherwise exhausted team that had to play one game too many in an Unbelievably long season which started way too soon with the Kilgore article.
bigfan4/23/2017 2:38:07 PM
Really can't wish away four players leaving with an age-friendly chest-bumping coach they chose or helped choose with their input.
Or another player who publicly dissed the coach, which should have earned him a nice seat on the bench to reflect on his attitude instead of participating in our humiliation.
Or a named person airing our internal dirty laundry in public because it stinks so badly.
All of this a full season after the "emotionally abusive" catalyst was removed.
Perhaps the dysfunction is on the other foot.
the mv4/23/2017 2:46:24 PM
Notta, I do see your point. I guess what I am hinting at is that after a full season together with Mojo as HC, if a rift exists between or among the coaching staff as JR's AAU coach contends, it appears dysfunctional that a change to the staff has not been made. Maybe the AAU coach is wrong and everyone gets along famously and with complete respect. However, given the circumstance of MoJo being selected ahead of an Associate HC and a more experienced recruiter whose main fault appears to have been to publicly lobby for the job, this is not what I am betting on.
reality4/23/2017 3:22:59 PM
There was only one question that mattered when they interviewed Hajj, Carm, and Mojo:
If we offered you the head coaching position, where would you want your salary?
Hajj and Carm were probably asking for something in line with a Division 1 head coach. Mojo, being a third assistant, was just happy to not be fired along with ML.
If this was based on basketball knowledge, experience, Xs and Os, etc., they would have hired Hajj.
thinker4/23/2017 3:26:11 PM
To MV's point, I find it unlikely the coaching staff is full of happy campers. I'm 100% sure both Hajj and Carm wanted the HC job.
As I understand, Hajj didn't get the job because style wise he was too similar to ML. I'm not sure about Carm but suspect his and Hajjs rivalry would have meant one would have had to go right away.
Mojo had the best relations with the players was most calming and avoided having one of Hajj and Carm quitting or having to be fired right then and there.
I cannot possibly imagine that anyone thinks it is a good thing to have both with the team next year. I also think that GW is giving them both the opportunity to interview and try and get a job elsewhere where it looks like they are leaving on their own terms in good standing. That benefits all sides.
I think it would definitely be a bad thing for both to remain and for MoJo not to have a top assistant who was strictly his choice and solely loyal and beholden to him. There are probably still a couple of months for that to happen.
I'll make a prediction that at most only one of Hajj and Carm will be with the team next fall. It wouldn't stun me if both are gone. I would guess that those inside are rooting for it to be Hajj that leaves. That is mostly confirmed by the title of this thread. I'm guess that the #BowieStrong crowd is hurting Hajj with this shit more than helping him. But they misread every possible play so far so no reason to expect that to change.
I think it's tough to figure out who the sabatouger is in these circumstances because there are few metrics OTHER than recruiting for assistants. And even then recruiting is very hit or miss and measurable only over time. Recruiting is the LONG game and most recruits get sold over several years. With a new coach and a new style of play they may change who they focus on - in a sense starting all over with.
the dude4/23/2017 3:27:54 PM
1. I was concerned when 100% of the 4 ML HS recruits who would have been seniors this year transfered out when ML was the Coach.
2. I was concerned when 80% of the 5 ML recruits transfered out who should be Seniors next year, when ML was Coach.
3. I was concerned when the ML recruits who were to comprise the Junior class next year were rated the A10's worst recruiting class (Goss/JR) did not play at all when ML was the Coach on a very thin GW team that badly needed depth.
Where was your concern about THOSE things? I read your 1,000 posts critical of ML in game coaching decisions minutia, mostly off base, meanwhile you missed the real story. To be fair, you had plenty of company in that regard.
Because of all of the above things, we were facing major personnel issues post TC and the Core 4, whether the HC was ML or one of his 3 Assistants.
the dude4/23/2017 3:37:22 PM
..and I was perplexed because all of this after an A+ job of recruiting in his first calendar year+
after July 2016, I was a lot less perplexed
bobo4/23/2017 3:49:01 PM
So, dude, I would then expect you to be equally concerned about MoJo's lack of productivity to recruit so far. Both as aneeded assistant and now as a head coach. The next high level recruit MoJo signs will be the first high level recruit he has ever signed.
gw694/23/2017 4:03:34 PM
BOBO--it would also be his first season as a head coach that he has a
chance to sign a high level recruit.
bobo4/23/2017 6:11:19 PM
MoJo was HC last year too. I keep hearing about his success last year as head coach so I'm assuming he was the coach. MoJo has never been a successful recruiter at any level. So now he's the permenent head coach at GWU. There are 5 open spots right now for MoJo to prove himself as a recruiter. We'll see how he does. The program's success depends on him bringing in high level players this very off season.
gw694/23/2017 6:21:14 PM
It just appears you can't wait to pounce.Lets see what happens.
Plenty of time to beat the crap out of him down the line.
ziik the bomb thrower4/23/2017 6:25:09 PM
Unless he recruits a 3 point shooter named Tre, I'm done.
the dude4/23/2017 7:20:13 PM
Bobo, what Doc69 said. I've addressed your question many times already as you surely know. While I actually like a few of the early signs, I was not a fan of and in fact advocated against hiring someone with an unknown and limited recruiting track record. (not poor, limited/unknown)
I know you like to distract when ML recruiting is brought up, but the topic was concern about how we arrived at the current personnel situation. The answer to how we got there I posted above:
1. 100% of The 4 ML HS recruits who would have been seniors this year transfered out when ML was the Coach.
2. 80% of the 5 ML recruits transfered out who should be Seniors next year, when ML was Coach.
3. ML recruits who were to comprise the Junior class next year were rated the A10's worst recruiting class (Goss/JR) did not play at all when ML was the Coach on a very thin GW team that badly needed depth.
Because of all of the above things, we were facing major personnel issues post TC and the Core 4, whether the HC was ML or one of his 3 Assistants. ML also had ZERO transfers in waiting for 2017 and no HS recruits signed for 2017 when he was fired . I'm amazed Mojo with an interim tag and so quickly after an embarrassing scandal was able to recruit anyone, nevermind two decent looking recruits.
So yeah, cautiously optimistic he can dig us out the mess left for him. I'm rooting for that, are you? Hard to tell these days.
thinker4/23/2017 7:44:55 PM
The problem Bobo, is you are painting the picture as if there is only one relevant fact as opposed to a very broad sequence of events that took place over an extended period of time. You say the relevant fact is the hiring of Mojo but really I think you just can't get over the firing of ML.
Absent the context of everything that has transpired I'd agree that MoJo wouldn't have been a sensible choice. But I think you're just using the backdoor to really continue to grind the axe with regard to ML.
The fundamental reason MoJo is the coach is that ML fucked GW and had to be fired at the worst time of the season leaving us few optipns. Then after the season where MoJo performed admirably there wasn't a way internally at GW to make any kind of bold move because we're in between presidents.
If you want ignore all that context that's your right but it's ignorant to ignore context. Since I don't think you're ignorant it leads me back to the basic point you're really just advocating in Some fashion for ML and your beloved Maggie.
long suffering fan4/23/2017 8:01:17 PM
Maybe we were too excited about 75 wins in 3 years, including an NIT championship, an NCAA at large bid and multiple victories over nationally ranked teams to notice what a bad job Lonergan was doing. Psst Dude....Lonergan did not coach the team last season and he is not the coach now. Time to move on
bobo4/23/2017 8:11:52 PM
Just because Nero and GW fired ML doesn't mean they needed to hire the 3rd assistant with no record of a recruiter. Just becuse they hired that person as an interim head coach doesn't mean GW and Nero had to make him the permanant head coach.
If MoJo can't recruit GW is fucked, not just for the the short term of the next 2-3 years, it's fucked for about a 5 year period, at least. I have no confidince MoJo can recruit, simply because he's never done it before in his life.
Hiring MoJo was a recless gamble by GW. Maybe they will hit the lottery and it will all work out. Odds say that it won't. We should have a very good idea by the end of this summer if he can do the job as GW has 5-6 open spots and there are dozens of high quality transfers out there waiting to be recruited to GW.
That is MoJo's test.
bobo4/23/2017 8:16:06 PM
And I've seen Mrs Lonergan at several GW game and at Kenner leauge games and she's always a strong caring relationship with the players. My sons also play against her sons in sports out here in AA County and she's always been a good supportive mom there as well.
Thinker, your constant shots against Mrs Lonergan only rerflect poorly on you, not her. If you are serious that you want to move on from ML, maybe you should stop taking stots against Mrs Lonergan too.
the mv4/23/2017 8:24:59 PM
By all means, let's criticize ML for not having any 2017 recruits or transfers lined up at the time of his firing. Let's see, you can not actually sign anyone until November and ML was fired in September, so it's kind of hard to fault him for not having signed anyone. But, you can verbal earlier than this. Most high schoolers tend to "early verbal" at the start of the school year. Of course that would have been well over a month since it became public that he was being investigated for verbal and emotional abuse of his players, but why would that slow down a kid from making an early verbal commitment? And let's not forget, despite this mess, Anthony Longpre, a prime ML target, was only on campus for an official visit the day ML was fired. Nevertheless, The Dude is probably right for chastising ML for not having anyone lined up for 2017. The guy was such a slacker when it came to recruiting. Anyone in college basketball circles would have told you that.
bigfan4/23/2017 10:17:47 PM
Can talk about how Mrs. L was hugely supportive to the team, the players and their families.
But have one simple question:
What sort of man goes after someone's wife just to add snideness?
the dude4/23/2017 10:19:00 PM
Unfortunately LSF, GW will be feeling the impact of ML's shoddy recent recruiting (10 of his last 11 HS recruits 2013-15 have transfered out) for several years to come. As Thinker notes, taking over for the guy fired for atrocious player treatment is not ideal either.
I'm all for the next era, the Mojo era, I also don't want the face of the University a guy who treats our kids that way, or whose recruiting had slipped to that poor of a level, but more so the former.
harper4/23/2017 10:44:41 PM
Bigfan, to ask the question is to answer it ... a very small man indeed. A tiny man who because he was born with an inferiority complex and probably got donkey slapped by the big bad Bowie bullies (lol) must come here behind the safety of his computer to say things he would otherwise dare say face to face. For if he did, he knows full well that he would get the shit slapped right out of him. A weasel's weasel who forgot long ago that you are supposed to use your north end not your south end when you are speaking or typing.
question4/23/2017 10:52:01 PM
Is ML, the best coach in GW history, responsible for any of the following?
- Publicly documented infighting within the 2017 coaching staff?
- Jair Bolden publicly "dissing" the coach that the players don't respect before the CBI loss to University of Illinois-Chicago, a 13-17 team that finished in 7th place in the Horizon League.
- The departure of a) two players that should have been the starting backcourt, b) the top freshman recruit, and c) a big man that would have provided desperately needed depth?
porter714/23/2017 11:14:40 PM
I actually wonder if the firing of ML while Longpre was on a visit has/will have a negative impact on recruiting. If I'm an opposing coach and am in a recruiting battle with GW, I'm pretty sure I'd bring that up in coversation. "How can you trust a university that will invite you for a visit, then dismiss the coach while you are there? Doesn't seem to be like the school has a focus on the basketball program. Is that the type of place you'd want to go?"
I've also seen a few different posters note that we are in the situation we are in because ML "needed" to be fired at that moment. 2 weeks before practice began. With the a recruit in town. He "needed" to go, which shows a sense of urgency. Even if I grant all the things Dude, Thinker, etc... are true and the firing was just, the Univesity could have done this at plenty of other times. Hell, you could have fired Lonergan before the Japan trip, named MoJo as coach immediately and then had the team bond together and regroup over that trip. Even if ML needed to go, he didn't fire himself a couple weeks before practice with a recruit in town with no immediate plan for a successor. The administration did that. They own the consequences.
Also, the reason why we lost the CBI game was that Sina didn't play. As much was we liked to bad mouth him, he was the most important member of the backcourt and a stablizing force for the team. His leadership was sorely missed in that game.
the dude4/24/2017 12:44:57 AM
Porter, agree about Sina and that game.
With regard to schools recruiting against GW, think about what a weapon the full contents of the WaPo story and the allegations coming from half a dozen current and former players and staff was/is. The timing of the firing was not the issue, the real sword is the nature of the alleged conduct. Imagine what a blunt force object that would have remained had ML been retained. "So you want to go to GW huh? have you read how the Coach treats his players/staff?"
thinker4/24/2017 12:52:54 AM
Above I addressed why GW had to wait until after the investigation to fire ML. Once the shit hit the fan they HAD to have an independent investigation first AND then they had to fire him immediately after. The countdown was started with the Post article then everything had to happen in sequence and the end result could not happen until after the investigation was done. That drove the timing.
And I agree with you that GW made plenty of mistakes - as I've stated above. But any flexibility they had passed long before last summer.
Georgetown just fired JTIII while a recruit was in for a visit. Would it have been better to let ML possibly sign Longpre and then fire him a day of two later?
GW knew it was going to fire Hobbs and still let him sign Trey Davis.
Something that hurts recruiting FAR more than things like that is lots of unhappy players transfering. ML's ability to recruit was going to be hindered to a greater degree because of the article than MoJo's will be bexause of the timing of ML's firing.
porter714/24/2017 1:46:51 AM
Ha...don't even get me started on Hobbs. If there was any situation the university handled worse than this one, it was Hobbs in 2006 when the hatchet job on Omar Williams came out. Instead of standing by the coach and standing by the player, GW knee-capped its own program. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
thinker4/24/2017 2:07:29 AM
I agree with you 1000% on Hobbs, Porter.
khris lane4/24/2017 7:52:20 AM
Khris Lane, who we were going after, chose to transfer to VCU. This quote is quite informative and illustrates how coaching matters when it comes to recruiting, not just the location and academics:
"“I just feel comfortable here with the coaching staff,” Lane said.
“I had a lot of opportunities to come play right away, but it was important that I had the right system where I could fit in and had a coach who wanted to utilize my strengths — me stretching the floor, shooting pick-and-pop 3s, but also being able to go down there and bang and post up when I need to. He wants me to be versatile.”"
Do you think he felt good after meeting with our coaching staff? or watching our "offensive sets"?
bo knows4/24/2017 9:02:33 AM
You all know how I feel about the ML dismissal. However, this thread isn't helping things. Some of you on both sides just need to STFU. Why? We have recruits on campus right now.
Again, for the 500th time, recruits and their families read this board.
I look at it like this. ML isn't coming back. I hope he wins/settles for $10 million or more, gets another job, etc. The dispute is now on a different plane. What I do know is I don't want GW to suck for the next 5 years while everyone here scores debating points and recruits are turned off.
Mojo is the coach. Whether you like it or not, he is the coach. So I am going to support Mojo and leave all the bullshit of how he became coach aside. We need players and we need them now. I got over 30 years invested in this program and a lot of money. Been through the ups and downs like many of you. You all need to chill out if you really care about GW basketball moving forward.
gw694/24/2017 9:42:28 AM
Bo Knows--Thank you for your post.We can spar about how we got to
this point.--but we are where we are.We need some good recruits to
get things going here.The past can effect the present--but how we
view the future can also effect the present.Im not into denial or false
optimism--but,wow,how about some good energy here once in a while.
thinker4/24/2017 9:57:33 AM
I agree with you 100% Bo (except the part about ML getting a big settlement). But it's the ML crew that is here trashing all things GW. They're the ones that need to move on. I'm posting only so that their shit doesn't sit here unchallenged. Otherwise I have no need to rehash.
the mv4/24/2017 11:46:49 AM
So Thinker, am I part of that ML crew? Here are my credentials and then I'll let you decide:
Fully acknowledge that ML showed lapses in judgement if the reported remarks attributed to him are factual which I have no freason to believe they aren't.
Never claimed or argued that PN 100% for a fact did anything to prompt ML's reported remarks. But, I have acknowledged that some stories have been floated, both here and by some media members, that are meant to lead one to believe that ML has a side to all of this that if not defensible, at least rationalizes why ML made the remarks that he's been reported to make.
My "agenda" in all of this is to get to the bottom line truth behind everything. Not to get ML his job back which nobody sees happening. I'd like to know if the school made the correct moves or not. I'd like to know if this program has now taken the risk of being set back a considerable amount of time because of a decision that was made without either knowing or caring to know all of the facts.
I don't believe I am at all alone with regard to this line of thinking. So you tell me. Do I need to move on while the possibility exists that I don't yet know everything there is to know? Am I part of the crew that's trashing all things GW?
thinker4/24/2017 12:02:24 PM
I've known you for years MV and in my mind I don't include you in "ML and crew." I've often posted that I think you are smart and engaging and knowledgable when we've talked in person. You've always seemed to me to be a very strong fan and supporter of GW basketball.
Mostly ML and crew is a series of new and alternating user names who pop up for a bit on this subject and then disappear. Their posts tend to be fairly transparent in their attempt to undermine GW or bolster ML's various strategies and arguments over time.
And I think people can be interested in understanding what transpired without trashing GW, MoJo and the team with thread titles like this one which are only intended to hurt GW going forward. I don't believe you have any intention to hurt GW. I take you at your word that you want to know what happened. That's one reason I've posted so extensively on this thread - to explain what happened.
nj colonial4/24/2017 12:02:36 PM
"A Real Colonial," if you are one - I am in fact NJ Colonial and I stand by all of my posts. I love this school and the hoops program and I want to MOVE ON!
gw05094/24/2017 12:19:47 PM
Bo Knows, thank you for saying what needed to be said. As I live in the here and now, I have no real desire to find out the "whole truth." Occam's razor would seem to apply to this whole situation.
old fan4/24/2017 12:29:07 PM
And Bo thanks for lying about ML here for years and yelling at other posters opinions about him.
gw724/24/2017 1:04:16 PM
This campaign reflects terribly on ML if it's coming from him and his cohorts. Why do you think that it is?
recruiting4/24/2017 1:12:10 PM
What do you think matters more to recruits?
A message board consisting of bored alums or watching film of our stagnant offense alongside a coaching that doesn't get along?
the mv4/24/2017 1:24:53 PM
Well, I'm glad that was your response Thinker. My point is that there are a group of longtime and regular posters here who feel the way I feel. We do not have vicious agendas nor are we interested in embarking upon smear campaigns. It doesn't seem like it's too much to ask that we learn the entire truth about what happened before drawing any conclusions. We have all moved on from a basketball standpoint. We recognize that MoJo is the head coach for at least the next four years and we know that ML is not coming back. We don't need to be reminded of any of this. At the same time, we are not ready to move on from this story because we are of the mindset that there is more to what happened than what's already known. This whole soap opera will be concluded once a lawsuit is completed or a settlement has been reached. And, if neither of these things happen and ML does not make any public comments citing "his side", then I will safely conclude that ML and no other person was in the wrong here and that the school made the right decision. However, it's been just over 7 months since the firing so we may have, unfortunately, a long way to go.
bo knows4/24/2017 3:51:00 PM
Old Fan ... that's not really your regular board name ... you are as transparent as Saran wrap. Sorry but exactly how did I lie about ML? I said he wouldn't be fired. period. That was a wrong prediction except for the uneducated. Thanks for proving that GW has a few of those in our midst. I guess somebody had to be in the bottom 10 percent of the class.