THE NCAA TOURNEY, ETC.
the dude
 3/29/2017 1:36:43 PM      Replies: 154

the dude3/15/2017 12:02:02 AM

Thought I'd start a thread for NCAA tourney discussion.  I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Tom Crean's Indiana team being blown out in their first NIT Game too. 18-16, 2-11 away from home.

 If you want to see actual awful Coaching, watch the decision at the end of the 16 vs 16 game. Speaking of which, posted this quote from the emptiest bag of air in sports, Clark Kellogg:

"This 16 vs 16 matchup shows us what to expect all tourney long, that regardless of seeds, we'll have extremely close and competitive games throughout."

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mojo risin3/15/2017 1:11:18 AM

Who doesn't foul with 33 seconds left, 30 on shot clock down 1! You are going to get a rebound and coast to coast in under 3 secs!!

jfw3/15/2017 1:33:15 AM

Richmond nice road win for A10.  Beat Nit three seed on road. 

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the dude3/15/2017 2:06:51 AM

Good win indeed, the A10 really needed those BCS wins back in Nov and Dec. Hurt the whole league how few collectively good ones we had as a league.  Maybe just 1? URI vs Cincy.

Thomas/others, does Crean survive an 18-16 season? This is Indiana right? 71-91 in Big 10?

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bobo3/15/2017 10:03:09 PM

I'm always so imprested with the city of Dayton to follow out and support these First Four games year after year.  Awesome fans of college basketball.

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the dude3/15/2017 10:10:20 PM

Thomas, as we discussed, started a thread for some NCAA tourney discussions.

My first thought, what a Coaching job by our guy Ed Cooley, to have Providence back in the tourney yet again, after losing Dunn and Ben Bentil to the NBA from a very two man dominated team.

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thomas3/15/2017 10:51:53 PM

The Dude, I had those same thoughts about Providence coach Ed Cooley, Kris Dunn and Ben Bentil literally carried the entire team last year, both of them leave for the NBA and Providence still finished 3rd in the Big East this year. And it's not as if he brought in a bunch of McDonald's All-Americans this year, he is doing with basically his role players from last year(Bullock, Cartwright, Lindsey) elevating their games in their new roles which is an even bigger testement to what a great coach Cooley is. I mean, look at the job Cooley is doing as opposed to his Big East rival who is coaching at the Hilltop...it's not even close!!!

Something else I need to point out about the tournament is Kethan Savage playing Winthrop tomorrow afternoon. Some of us didn't like how he left GW, but we need to remember that he didn't get an opportunity to play in the 2014 NCAA tournament game against Memphis due to an injury. Whether you like him or not, you should be happy that he'll get the opportunity to actually suit up in an NCAA tournament game. I know missing that game against Memphis had to really hurt him, especially when you consider how close that game was. Savage had control over what he did on the court and his attitude, but he had no control over the injury that caused him to miss the 2nd half of his sophomore year and the NCAA tournament game.

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rkelley3/15/2017 11:02:22 PM

Join my free group for GW Hoops on ESPN Bracket Challenge:

GW Hoops - ESPN Bracket Challenge

 

Password: gwhoops2017

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the dude3/15/2017 11:09:14 PM

Could not agree more Thomas, as to both of your central points, well said.

Kethan may have missed the NCAAs, but he absolutely dominated two BCS teams in the NIT, he likes the big stage, as he has all season for Butler, I'll surely be pulling for him.

It really is  an incredible job by the great Ed Cooley. A bunch of role players, but are we seeing a star is born moment from Jalen Lindsay? Dude looks like a legit shooter with size.

Who wins the NCAA tourney? Gonzaga is my pick.  

thomas3/15/2017 11:16:59 PM

The Dude, we may have jinxed Providence, they've completely fallen apart in this game against USC since we started posting about them!! I just filled out a bracket, I got North Carolina winning.

RKelley, I'll join your group shortly

the dude3/15/2017 11:42:46 PM

Our Providence posts did jinx! 4 Straight NCAA trips for Cooley, I consider anything thereafter with this squad of role players in a rebuilding year pure gravy.  

Yeah, I joined as well, good idea RK.  Throw yours in their gents

the dude3/16/2017 1:07:38 PM

in my office pool, 43 people picked Wich St, just 9 have Dayton, when 80% pick the 10 when you are a 7, you got screwed by the NCAA

Kevin Keatts UNCW team has UVA in some early trouble. I've got UNCW Sweet 16 bound

bm3/16/2017 4:49:25 PM

Bucknell hanging tough with (Go home) Mountaineers.  GW recruit Nana Fouland with 17pt, 6rb, 3blk, 4fl.

the dude3/16/2017 5:03:58 PM

Nana Fouland looks good. Would have been good here too

the dude3/16/2017 5:59:59 PM

YEP:

Gregg Marshall: "There's a lot of bad basketball" at the Power 5 level.

the dude3/16/2017 6:22:07 PM

Middle Tenn takes down 5 Seed Minnesota.

The NCAA needs to stop giving 12 seeds to teams that good, its unfair to them but also unfair to 5 seeds.  As a 12 seed, Midd Tenn had they lost their conf tourney finale would have been out of this tourney, no at large, even more RIDIC

the dude3/16/2017 6:54:56 PM

Vandy game: Intentionally fouling with seconds left, when you are up 1 late, is worse than calling a TO like Chris Webber when you don't have one, much much worse.  Brutal way to lose. Worst mental decision in NCAA history.

 

 

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thomas3/16/2017 6:59:24 PM

The Nana Fouland name sounded familiar, I had no idea that he'd become a star player for Bucknell.

The Ivy League puts on another great performance in their first round game. Mike Brey was very lucky to escape with a win against Princeton!! Middle Tennessee State and Princeton are the reasons that the smaller/1-bid conferences shouldn't have postseason tournaments. Princeton almost lost in their tournament semifinal.

What was Vanderbilt's Matthew Fisher-Davis thinking!!!! I understand that it was the final moments of a close game, but how could he not have been paying attention to the score in a moment like that?

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luvdagame3/16/2017 7:59:06 PM

Thomas that Vandy play right there was insane. VCU down right now to Mt. St. Mary's.

luvdagame3/16/2017 8:12:51 PM

Correction Saint Mary's

the dude3/16/2017 8:21:58 PM

This is a very good St Mary's team. A defensive team that can also play with skill offensively. A top 20 RPI team all year, very bad draw for VCU. Dayton's draw even worse.  

Is it just me, or was Mo Allie Cox more of a force in past year's? Seems like in both his GW games, this tourney game, other big games, seems far less of an impact player than couple years ago.

 

thomas3/16/2017 8:42:53 PM

Yeah, Dayton and VCU got horrible matchups. I expect Wichita State will beat Dayton in a similar manner to what St.Mary's is doing to VCU right now!! Rhode Island got screwed with 11 seed, but they are physical enough to beat Creighton. An interesting note on Creighton is, they have a very athletic 7 footer who could be a 1-and-done player. I know Creighton has been in the Big East for a few years, but who knew they were signing 1-and-done type of players!!!

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bc3/16/2017 8:47:17 PM

@The Dude,  I agree about Moe Allie Cox.  Seems like he played a much bigger role last year.  Maybe he's preparing to be a tight end in the NFL.

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tennessee colonial3/16/2017 8:47:55 PM

A10 refs did all they could to get VCU in the tourney. They sure look bad.

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thomas3/16/2017 8:56:30 PM

I haven't seen much of VCU-St.Mary's, have they been talking about Alie-Cox being a NFL Tight End prospect? They mentioned it a lot during the A-10 tourney games. Is he actually going to get drafted? Tillman has improved a lot this year, and he's a true power forward/center who is more skilled than Alie-Cox

bigfan3/16/2017 9:04:38 PM

There's another tournament besides the CBI?

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the sons of liberty3/16/2017 9:36:20 PM

I'm don't usually look to blame the A-10 refs, but it's clear that VCU is getting called for things in this Saint Mary's game that they probably don't get called for in the regular season.

Regardless, they've also been shooting poorly.

 

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pkgw3/16/2017 9:37:08 PM

vcu did not bring their refs.  Hackolot  I mean havoc being called correctly and they have 4 players with 4 fouls

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dc native3/16/2017 9:37:40 PM

VCU looks shocked that all the calls are going against them.

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free quebec3/16/2017 9:43:07 PM

@SonofLiberty, Live by the refs, die by the refs.

 

You are 100% correct.  THey literally broke Samir Doughty's nose in the first half, and they sent Jequan Lewis to the locker rooom in second half with a blatant moving screen/forearm shiver - and no calls on either.  Even tackled a VCU player on a rebound and the foul was called on VCU, and hammering them with no calls.  But VCU wouldn't be here anyway without the refs literally turning two losses into wins against Bonnies and GW, so no complaints.  Plus as I'm typing VCU actually got away with a foul.

mentzinger3/16/2017 9:45:11 PM

Former target Martin Geben had a few nice minutes for ND as well. 

Love seeing VCU when the calls don't go "right"

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the dude3/16/2017 9:45:26 PM

Yeah, strange about Mo Allie, not the same force, almost invisible at times.

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dc native3/16/2017 9:55:16 PM

Damn, the mighty VCU lost to an all white team from the WCC...

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nj colonial3/16/2017 10:20:41 PM

Watching FGCU leading Florida State, 12-0 run late in the first half... a fan even had a Coach Dooley bighead in the crowd... YES I'm jealous.

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thomas3/16/2017 10:32:11 PM

NJ Colonial, you beat me to it!! This Florida State-FGCU game has been a fast-paced, highlight-reel 1st half. I'm not sure that FGCU has quite enough athleticism and height to keep up with FSU for another half, but they've been impressive in the 1st half. Dwayne Bacon had 2 or 3 spectacular plays to end the half for FSU.

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the dude3/16/2017 10:33:30 PM

Nice run from FGCU, be interesting to see if they can hang with in the 2nd half.

A day of very few upsets so far.  Even the one 12 vs 5 game was a 50-50 odds game. Maybe North Dakota pulls off the huge upset in the late game.

nj colonial3/16/2017 10:56:03 PM

My post was mostly about the only GW Colonial in the NCAA Tourney tonight...Joe Dooley. Wish he was coming home to Foggy Bottom. Love his fire and intensity.

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nj colonial3/16/2017 10:59:47 PM

Dude, my cousin, Mark Coyle, the A.D at Minnesota, sure isn't happy about one upset today!

the dude3/16/2017 11:10:53 PM

Tough day NJC for Minnesota! While I picked that upset, I also really like their team. Pitino, great job this year, excellent recruiting, future is bright for them and Mr. Coyle!

The NCAA likes to front load the most likely upsets, all of the 12 vs 5's, etc.  Very few I think we might just get on one paper and really zero today.  Unless FGCU can pull this out!

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maine colonial3/16/2017 11:17:59 PM

Kethan had 6 in Butler's win. 

the dude3/17/2017 1:42:57 PM

Anyone feel the NCAA tourney has lost some of his charm, in a field of almost exclusively BCS teams? (and auto qualifiers 16-12 seed)  Lot of 8 vs 9 BCS and 7 vs 10 BCS match ups today. 

The other thing missing, how many guys did you see yesterday and think, wow this guy is going to be a really good NBA player?

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ziik3/17/2017 3:16:34 PM

Jim Boeheim is the X factor, Dude.

it's just not the same NCAA tourney, absent his whiney presence.

Hopefully, Coach K can make up for JB's absence

the dude3/17/2017 4:50:32 PM

Ziik, Can't say I miss that curmudgeon much.  Or his vastly bigger underachiever Tom Crean.

Thomas/others, thoughts on the NBA career of these guys:

1. Semi Ojele

2. Angel DelGado

3. Lonzo Ball - is he a good NBA player or top 10 elite NBA player?

4. Tatum and Giles. Tatum will have a good career, Giles?

5. Markannen on Arizona, that guy looks like a poor man's Porzingis.  Big time NBA guy?

 

gw19873/17/2017 4:53:57 PM

As much as I hate VCU, them loosing in the first round is bad for the whole conference. I root for GW first, a10 second. The foul disparities last night were horrible. I love seeing VCU get smacked down...but not in the NCAAs when it hurts us too.

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gw alum abroad3/17/2017 5:06:07 PM

VCU got paired against the team that got the worst raw deal of Tourney seeding. Not good to play a team with a chip on its shoulders. 

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centennialcolonial3/17/2017 5:18:58 PM

Dammit SMU, you let me down

the dude3/17/2017 5:49:22 PM

SMU also bit me (and a lot of folks, a popular Sweet 16 pick(

The worst raw deal would be another A10 team's opponent actually, Wich ST, paired with Dayton tonight. They gave a BPI and KenPom #8 team a 10 seed.

ST Mary's might have been the 2nd.  Both A10 teams could a total shaft, and its not unintentional.  The NCAA absolutely likes the best mid majors to knock each other out, and they do not like to jam an under-seeded team in with a blue blood, instead its usually another under-seeded mid  major.

URI is starting to take it to Creighton

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bigfan3/17/2017 6:16:34 PM

Feels weird and dirty to root for Rhode Island, especially with evil Hurley at the helm.

 

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thomas3/17/2017 6:18:34 PM

What do you guys think about the Flagrant 1 foul on Seton Hall's Desi Rodgriguez late in the game?? I understand that he pushed the guy, but I don't think it should have been called because the momentum of the Arkansas going towards the basket caused him fall forward. It looked like Rodriguez was just trying to put 2 hands on him for the foul. Seton Hall was down by 1 at the time and the flagrant 1 allowed Arkansas to get 2 free throws and the ball, which pretty much clinched the game for Arkansas.

Even though Creighton is a Big East team, Rhode Island is too big and physical for Creighton up to this point. Creighton has brought in a 7-footer off the bench who is hitting 3's and is physical enough to battle Iverson and Martin, he's keeping Creighton in it.

The Dude,  Florida State looks to have about 4 or 5 NBA prospects(the 2 7-footers, Mann, Bacon, Isaacs) from what I saw last night and during the year. I don't think Lonzo Ball is quite the passer that Jason Kidd was, but he'll be good. Ball's biggest weakness is his father!!! HA!

I think Tatum is the best draft prospect because of the way he can score rebound and shoot, he's probably being held back a bit at Duke because all of the talented players they have. I think he'll win Rookie Of The Year in the NBA next year. Oklahoma State lost today, but their point guard Juwan Evans should be real good in the NBA. I always root for upperclassman(like Brogdon this year) to do well as rookies because it seems as if everyone only hypes the freshman.

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the dude3/17/2017 6:43:43 PM

Thomas, agreed, have some more thoughts, but for now, need to point out URI is pounding 6 seed Creighton.  No matter what you think of Hurley personally, fantastic job at URI and he did it with outstanding recruiting.  You could see URI coming 2-3 years ago, as I noted at the time.

Most of these guys are back next year too.

 

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ziik the bureaucrat3/17/2017 6:48:35 PM

Dude, no need to pat yourself on the back about Hurley's recruiting. Most guys could see it coming. The issue was, why was the coach not winning big with the players he brought in.

My guess, he moves on, with all these openings.

thomas3/17/2017 6:58:28 PM

The Dude,  absolutely!! This probably would've happened last year for Rhode Island if E.C.Matthews didn't tear his ACL. I know a lot of people on the board don't like Danny Hurley(along with his father and brother) because they all have an irksome quality about them, but you could see this coming with all the talented guys he was bringing in as you wrote.

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long suffering fan3/17/2017 7:02:59 PM

Won straight up on URI, now awaiting result of my URI/Wichita parlay.  To hedge my bet, also took Dayton getting a whopping 6.5 points as the higher seed.     Also took K State over Cincinnati on money line +155 under theory that AAC has taken over for the A-10 as the most overrated conference in the tournament

the dude3/17/2017 7:23:03 PM

Right on Thomas, agreed!! This was absolutely a debate here. The fact is that that a lot of GW fans were purposefully misled here for years about our recruiting, and now for 3 straight seasons there's a lot of "why didn't the team do better"  The same talk at the end of  ML's last 2 years too.

Its not really about URI's recruiting, I'm glad the A10 has some strength at the top, its about GW's, and they have been kicking our ass for 4 straight years.  For all of the talk about our class, check out their 2016 recruiting class.   Those guys actually played well too.  Look at the Seniors and Juniors as well, on not just URI but Dayton and VCU (despite a Coaching change) 

Applies to transfers too, the year they signed Iverson, we signed Sina.  I'm just amazed that we have a board that still discusses a Coach not hired 17 years ago more than our actual program and its roster construction.

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thomas3/17/2017 7:28:55 PM

I thought Wichita State was going to dominate this game(they still may that), until I just heard the announcers talk about Steve McElvene, the Dayton sophomore center who died of a heart ailment last May. This game is Indiana, which is McElvene's hometown and his mother is in attendance!! Despite the Wichita State being grossly underseeded, Dayton could play some inspired ball tonight in McElvene's honor.

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the dude3/17/2017 8:37:56 PM

Close half, solid half for Dayton against America's 2nd greatest Coach.

RIP, McElvene.

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dc native3/17/2017 9:28:43 PM

Refs being as tough on Dayton as they were on VCU.

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dc native3/17/2017 9:34:02 PM

A10 record in tourney

A10 = 1

Refs = 2

bigfan3/17/2017 9:45:26 PM

Dayton goes down.

They weren't shooting or largely trying to from outside and seeming fouls, or lets say very physical play inside wasn t called on Wichita State.

the dude3/17/2017 10:18:40 PM

Rebuilding season Wich St beats Senior class led (5 NCAA wins) A10's best team Dayton.  Gives you an idea just how good Gregg Marshall's Wich St program is.

Shamet is the next Van Vleet/Ron Baker Wich St NBA bound guard.  Dayton is not going to be nearly as good next season.  

the dude3/17/2017 10:26:08 PM

Side note, if you have not seen Marquette, give a view, very entertaining team to watch. Incredible 3 point shooting and offensive team. They have a guy who has made 55% of his 3's this year.

The Big East is the never die league, no matter who leaves they keep on trucking. No matter how many teams stars that got hurt...  7 out of 10 teams in the field and I believe 6 may win their games.  

bo knows3/17/2017 10:58:36 PM

Math apparently was never your strong suit Dude.

URI wins one tournament game this year and one NIT game last year and they are kicking our ass?

Records since Hiurley came to URI:

GW 107-63 overall 49-37 A-10

URI 87-73 overall 43-43 A-10

Yup looks like a complete ass kicking so far to me ... rotflmao

By the way how is Michael Tertsea doing? You remember the guy you touted as a huge recruiting miss for GW? He had to redshirt this season because he couldn't even compete on the court. Thank God ML didn't listen to you.

 

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gw19873/18/2017 12:24:55 AM

Bo you know that's not what Dude meant. Take your head out of your ass and learn to read what he said. Besides, right now RI is way better than GW. They will be for some time. 

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bo knows3/18/2017 12:35:38 AM

GW1987 I guess you fall into the not too bright category as well. Please explain exactly how our ass has been kicked in recruiting for the past 4 years when we have had the better record in at least 2 of those years, have a better overall record over that time span and have more wins in Conference. We have also played in more post season games than URI during that period. Is there some other theoretical measure of recruiting that I am missing that doesn't involve on the court performance? Try to use that GW degree to understand that one data point (this year's NCAA) does not make a data set upon which to draw a conclusion. It's really not all that complicated.

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sw3/18/2017 1:17:07 AM

Sucks to be Dayton. Win nine straight coming into your final regular season game at GW and proceed to lose your last three games of the year.

 

F U--Dayton.

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the dude3/18/2017 1:24:10 AM

Well said 1987. Whomever posted the A10 player recruiting chart really did us all a great service, thx again for that. Tells the story. When you see 8 red lines SLASHED through the 9  would be Seniors and Juniors at GW, and then see the URI, Dayton and VCI charts loaded with Senior and JR recruits. Well, as they say 1 good chart is worth 1,000 words. Maybe 10,000.

Davidson has a similar chart, to GW, down to just two real good players, just like GW.  The top 3 A10 teams have more like 5-7, just like GW had 3 years ago.  We need to get back to that level of roster.

Kudos to Mike Anderson, one of America's most underrated Coach. Under the radar the guys takes teams to the Tourney and wins NCAA games, at tough to win places.

Not one buzzer beater, not one major upset! Where is the Madness? This is more like Power 5 chalk. Hopefully this weekend some true Madness breaks out, ideally on the heads of the bluest of bloods. 

 

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long suffering fan3/18/2017 10:20:08 AM

Dude...I suspect that if Lonergan coached this team, we would have been in the top tier of the A-10 along with Dayton, URI and VCU, but I recognize that I cannot prove that nor will we ever know that.  Just like you cannot prove otherwise.   We can both articulate our reasons and disagree with each other but the fact is we will never know.     Further, for all of your ML recruiting bashing, we are actually in pretty good shape.   We are losing one starter and one sub from a 20 win season.    Granted, the player we are losing is our best player, but if you have been watching all year, you would have seen that we are hardly a one man team.   (Lots of teams lose their best player).    We have a good core coming back, and a good recruit or transfer will have us very competitive once again.  Fact is (and I am not expecting you to agree)...this program was quite strong after last season.   We lost 3 top players in Kevin, Pato and JoeMac and entered the season in disarray, but in the end we again won 20 games and we were competitive in nearly every game we played (Florida State and at VCU are the only 2 stink bombs that come to mind) and to think that this was solely the doing is Mojo...well you know better than that.  If you and others want to hate on Lonergan and thought he needed to be fired for whatever reason...go for it, but give the man a little credit for rebuilding a program that had sunk pretty low prior to his arrival, and being able to turn over a competitve team to the incoming coach.

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long suffering fan3/18/2017 10:28:29 AM

Thomas, MV, others...help.  No game today really jumps out at me.  Any suggestions.  Would consider Butler -3.5 over Middle Tennessee State, but I find it very distasteful betting on a Big East team, especially one that bolted the conference (yes, I recognize that half the NCAA field bolted the A-10 at some point in time).   For my good buddy Wisconsin Colonial, I would like to take Wisconsin getting 6 over Villanova, but Villanova scares me and the betting has been in their favor.   Do you think that tournament darlings Northwestern can stay within 11 of Gonzaga? 

the mv3/18/2017 10:29:35 AM

Ziik, there is no need to tell The Dude that he doesn't need to pat himself on the back.  It's like saying to your mechanic that there is no need to overcharge me, or calling CBS to say that you've already seen the new Direct TV commercial enough times so you don't need to keep airing it.  It's going to happen regardless.

As for GW/URI, Rhody was better this year, GW was better last year.  GW has won 5 of the 8 meetings this decade.  Hassan Martin had a promising freshman year and then Hurley landed EC Matthews who was a heralded request.  Anyone paying the slightest bit of attention, who also saw what Hurley had accomplished in just 2 years at Wagner, knew at the time that URI was a program on the upswing.

But the delusional one feels compelled to remind us that it was he who spotted this years ago.

And here's the latest mastermind prediction that we will be certainly reminded about for a while...I hope you're sitting because get ready to be shocked...

Dayton will not be as good next year.

In case you are unaware, all Dayton is losing to graduation is Scoochie Smith, Charles Cooke, Kendal Pollard and Kyle Davis. Give or take, around 85% of the firepower of this year's team.

Great call Dude.  You be sure to let us know if you were right and Dayton is not as good next year...again and again and again and again.

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the mv3/18/2017 10:31:44 AM

LSF, no time to analyze (the wife gets her way during non-game hours) but I'm on board today with Wisc (homer pick for me but I do like it), Purdue, and a small ND/Zona M/L parlay.  Good luck.

1

thomas3/18/2017 11:52:05 AM

LSF,  I just looked at the lines and Florida State(-6.5) over Xavier immediately jumped out to me!! I heard some Maryland homers on the radio and TV claiming that Xavier is a real good team to make themselves feel better about Maryland losing to them, but Xavier had actually been playing worse than Maryland coming into the NCAA tournament. I think Florida State will destroy them!!

About Dayton, do you guys think Archie Miller will leave?? I think the fact that N.C.State couldn't get him says a lot about how much Archie Miller loves it at Dayton because Archie played at N.C.State. You'd think it would be a no-brainer for Archie Miller to leave for N.C.State. I'm assuming Indiana, Illinois, Cal(where he could coach against his brother at Arizona) and maybe Washington will have an interest in him.

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the dude3/18/2017 1:01:37 PM

LSF, check the A10 recruiting chart posted on this site.

Thomas, Xavier with Edmund Sumner was a real good team, without him they were not nearly the same. I picked Xavier because MD had a terrible KenPom for their seed. Like GW I suspect MD won a lot of very close games.  

If Archie leaves I'm thinking Indiana.  NC St is not an easy place to win.  Sean waited for Arizona, I suspect Archie only leaves for a program well situated in its conference to win.

 

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sw3/18/2017 1:01:57 PM

Archie doesn't want to coach at NC State because NC State is a coaching graveyard.

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notta hater3/18/2017 1:29:20 PM

the way I see it: "hey, I am upset that I am an 11 seed" odds makers and committee "well, then call yourself a 6 seed."

thomas3/18/2017 2:01:19 PM

You guys are right about N.C.State being a place where coaching careers die at, but I thought Archie Miller would be more receptive to the N.C.State job since he played there.

LSF, MV or anyone else, did any of you bet on or take notice of what happened at the end of the Oklahoma State-Michigan game yesterday?? Michigan was a 2.5 or 3 point favorite in this game. Michigan had a 4 point lead with a few seconds left, Oklahoma State guard Juwan Evans then hit a 3-pointer at the buzzer to make the final score 92-91 and an Oklahoma State backdoor cover!! I saw the end of the game and didn't realize that had happened until Juwan Evans was trending on twitter. I thought he was trending because of his play during the first 39 minutes of the game, not the fact that he had "Some Folks Celebrating and Others Saying You Gotta Kidding Me" as Brent Musburger would put it!!

The Dude,  I believe Xavier lost 7 straight games toward the end of the regular season after Sumner got hurt, they broke the losing streak by beating lowly DePaul in their final regular season game which may have clinched a tourney bid for them. Xavier also upset Creighton or Butler in the 1st round of the Big East tournament, despite those 2 wins, I thought Xavier would still be reeling from the losing streak and lose to Maryland. It seemed like an odd matchup to me for a 6 versus 11 because both teams weren't playing well coming into the game

A funny story about Maryland's low KenPom/metric numbers, ESPN anchor/Maryland alum Scott Van Pelt had a metric numbers guy on his ESPN show and took exception to the guy pointing out how bad Maryland's numbers were, he especially didn't like him saying that Minnesota had better numbers. Maryland played Minnesota a day or 2 after this aired and Minnesota blew out Maryland!!

the dude3/18/2017 2:46:28 PM

33 games in, its a pleasure to watch games were the focus is on the players, and when mistakes are made people don't immediately blame the Coach, which happens far too much by a select few folks on this board. Imagine the reaction here if say that Vandy foul had happened to us.

Mike Brey's ND had another very good season, but this game was lost because VJ Beachem was dreadful, kept firing up line drive 3's that were badly missing, and then allowed that to translate to the defensive end where he looked dejected. 2-14 1-9 from 3, yikes. There are missed 3's that just miss, and then there are his 8 misses which were barely catching rim.  He then turned to low energy lazy defending.

A waste of another brilliant performance from the great Bonzi Colson.

 

1

the dude3/18/2017 3:25:48 PM

Haha, true Thomas.  Have you noticed that ESPN is slowly turning Sportscenter into 1st Take? Van Pelt now read long scripted "takes" on what had always been a sports news and highlight show.

SI had a good takedown on the NCAA this AM.  Pointed out that a lot of issue with the tourney is bad Seeding and TOO few mid majors.  With regards to seeds, Midd Tenn was favored by Vegas over Minnesota! If Vegas can spot a 12 is better than a 5, you'd think the Committee could too.

1

bc3/18/2017 4:33:37 PM

Wasn't Wichita State was also favored over VCU IIRC.    I'm not sure how often the NCAA mis-seeded team, but Middle Tennessee and Wichita State seem to be pretty grevious errors.

1

thomas3/18/2017 4:42:35 PM

Yeah,  ESPN has enough "I'm Right, You're Wrong" scripted fake argument comedy shows, they didn't have to turn Sportscenter into one of these shows too. The 6PM Sportscenter has turned into First Take too. Also, Van Pelt is a huge Maryland fan and goes to games, he didn't notice that Maryland was just barely beating a bunch of average to below average teams during their 20-2 start???

About seeding, I'm watching this Villanova-Wisconsin game and wondering how Wisconsin got an 8 seed when they finished 2nd in the Big 10 and were ranked for most of the year?? If anything, Maryland and Minnesota should've been 8 seeds and Wisconsin a 5 or 6. It looks like Villanova is going to pull out a hard-nosed, tough win here, but this shouldn't be a second round game for a 1 seed. This game is very similar to the Wichita State-Dayton game last night which was another instance of ridiculous seeding by the NCAA.  

2

the dude3/18/2017 4:47:09 PM

They were indeed BC.  Wich St, has a KenPom of 5 and a good RPI and got a 10 seed. St Mary's was an equally awful seeding, no coincidence the A10 and not some Power 5 ended up playing vastly under-seeded mid majors.  Happens every year.

It looks like each year the NCAA is more interested in just setting up big program Power 5 matchups.  No surprise the 5 seed paired with Middle Tenn was Minnesota, smallest fan base of any Power 5 top 5 seed team.

Some business analysts must have convinced them there's more $ in just aiding and abetting and then riding Power 5 programs, the hell with the whole Cinderella thing they used to Champion. CASH IS KING

the dude3/18/2017 8:34:39 PM

America's greatest Coach Mark Few, and the man whom GW should model its own International based program after, is back in the Sweet 16.  St Mary's playing now with an almost entirely Aussie Team (as they have for a decade) and there are at least two tourney teams based primarily around Canadian players.  Canadian Mojo needs to get GW back to its strength, International Recruiting.

 

3

jammer3/19/2017 12:31:17 AM

How about Chris Mack. fourth Sweet 16 in just six years. 

1

the dude3/19/2017 1:48:22 AM

"Greatest conference ever" ACC is 6-6 in tourney.  The much maligned Pac 12 6-0. WCC 3-1. The Big East has already booked a pair of Sweet 16 teams.

Thomas/others, Caleb Swanigan. Huge wingspan, good post moves, can shoot the 3. What kind of NBA career?  What about Josh Jackson, seems like the better all around player than Tatum. Shot might hold him back but probably best athlete/defender in this class.

Dana Altman, hope he loses to our A10 mate URI tomorrow, but helluva Coach, underrated. Amazing, very long run at Creighton, and has now turned to Oregon into a legit hoops power.  Imagine what a guy like that would do at a Texas or Indiana.

 

bo knows3/19/2017 9:43:17 AM

"America's greatest coach" needed a bogus non-call and a technical to survive the sixth best team in the Big 10 Northwestern ... just saying.

Funny ... has "America's greatest coach" ever been to a Final Four????? Must have missed it.

3

ziik the bomb thrower3/19/2017 1:33:25 PM

So, Dude. What happens when Few goes to Indiana?

1

the dude3/19/2017 2:28:58 PM

Mark Few is never leaving Gonzaga.  The question is, who will be the Mark Few of GW?

3

the dude3/19/2017 2:39:40 PM

18 years at Gonzaga, 18 NCAA trips, has won NCAA games in 15 of those seasons, 23 NCAA wins and counting.  Easy to forget, he's doing this at a tiny WCC school that won in the NCAA tourney in one season in its history before he became HC.

the mv3/19/2017 3:06:37 PM

A little time for responses before the Ky-Wichita tip:

Thomas: 1) I did see the end of the Arkansas-Seton Hall game and while the call went very far towardsa clinching the outcome for the Razorbacks, I do think it was the correct call.  The SH player (Carrington?) pushwed the Arkansas player in the back with two handsa, causing the player to fall.  The problem of course is that we see intentional fouls applied at the end of games all the time that are not called.  And with so much on the line, it's easy to ask why it was called here.  No real atttempt was made with regard to "a play on the ball."  It was two hands to the back, pretty clear to me.  The bigger problem in my mind is why on all those other times are intentional calls not called when they should be.  It's pretty simple, go for a steal while intentionally fouling someone and you'l never get called for an intentional.  Push a guy in the back is another matter.  2) And yes, I did see the end of Michigan-Oklahoma State.  It's an occupational hazard of gambling on basketball that exists to a far lesser extent in football.  Sure, you can be burned by backdoor covers or late pile-on scores in football but most of the time, the team that covers with 2 minutes left is the team that ends up covering.  Basketball scores are far more fluid and are subject to head-scratching events at the end of games that cause a bettor to suddenly celebrate or pull their hair out.  I did not bet that game, and was certainly glad I stayed away from the Wolverines who I did have in my pool.

LSF..Hope you went in on Wisconsin.  What a thrilling game.  Bilas made the excellent point that when the committee screws up seeding, it's more the opponent who suffers.  So Wisconsin was an 8, which maybe hurts their ego, but why should Nova have such a tough second round game?  Plus, they end up playing like the team with some pressure on them, and Wisconsin plays the "committee didn't believe in us card."  I had a big day yesterday after not only taking the badgers with the points but also playing them on the moneyline at +215.  Also won on Purdue but not without some late night "I just want to go to sleep, what the fuck is tghis team doing to me moments", and lost a few on a parlay since Notre dame was not equipped to handle West Virginia's pressure.  One game today so far...I think Kansas covers 7 against Michigan State.  I know what Izzo does in this tournament but I also know how inexperienced a team he'll be trotting out on the court today.  Wanted to take Rhody but was hoping for more points.  Will also be fun to watch Duke get booed like crazy in SC.

 

the dude3/19/2017 3:51:20 PM

Shaq Morris has a lot of Big Baby Davis in him. The game, the look, the body.  The emotion.

thomas3/19/2017 4:21:34 PM

The MV, you're right a flagrant foul is NEVER called in that situation when we see losing teams trying to foul an opposing player to stop the clock, that's why I didn't think it was a flagrant foul. We've been trained to think intentional fouls at the end of games are regular fouls or an accepted part of the game. The intentional foul by Rodriguez on the Arkansas player didn't seem that much different than what we always see at the end of games. The Arkansas player appeared to have either tripped over his own foot or flopped which sold the call to the refs.

The Dude, I just looked up Wichita State's roster and ALL of these guys will be back next year!!! There's no doubt that they will be a 1, 2 or 3 seed in the NCAA tournament next year. I hope Wichita State is in one of those 8-team holiday tournaments in which they get the opportunity to hammer a bunch of BCS schools who are afraid of scheduling them. The best prospect I see on the team is FRESHMAN Landry Shamet. I thought he was a junior or senior because of how skilled he is, he'll definitely be in the NBA just like Ron Baker and Van Fleet.

Everyone on this board is pulling for Wichita State in this one!!

3

the dude3/19/2017 4:35:08 PM

Thomas, agreed!

Check out the D McDuffie is on playing on UK's lightning quick NBA lottery pick Guards too.

the dude3/19/2017 4:55:46 PM

Wow, Shamet.  Best player on the court, on a court loaded with typical UK 1 and done lottery picks

thomas3/19/2017 5:15:28 PM

I really wanted Wichita State to beat Kentucky because it's always great to see a BCS blue-blood get humbled in the NCAA tournament by a mid-major!! I'll give credit to Kentucky's 1-and-done/McDonald's All-American freshman for actually playing hard on defense late in the game and making clutch plays. I thought Kentucky's three 1-and-done's only cared about adding more highlights to their social media mixtape videos!! It's also clear that Shamet will be in the NBA with Fox, Bam Adebayo and Malik Monk in a few years.

The Dude, not only was McDuffie doing a great job on containing Monk and Fox, Shaq did a great job on Adebayo. The only way Adebayo could score is when he had a clear path to the basket and could dunk. Adebayo will experience a lot of that next year in the NBA whenever he gets off the bench!!

1

the dude3/19/2017 5:42:49 PM

Ditto that Thomas very well said! Shaq was also great on Bam.  What an effort from Wich St.  Frankkamp made the mistake Jair made the other night, ran his man right into Shamet. What was he doing!? Shamet's 3 was going down otherwise, had his man in the air, that would have tied it. 

Before Kansas was beaten by Wich St in the tourney a few years back, in the presser before the game they were asked about Baker and Van Vleet and they laughed in derision.  That pretty much says its all, Blue Bloods and Mid majors.  Wich St got the REAL laugh that night.

tennessee colonial3/19/2017 10:23:28 PM

I'm so tired of seeing how refs control all the games in the NCAA's. No consistency as to how they call a game. Before you know if they are going to call a game "tight" or "loose-Let them Play" a star player will have two quick fouls on them. Bizarre how a team gets a lot of foul shots throughout the year suddenly only get 3 or 4. No fouls, all clean blocks by the teams they favor. Pretty sick. Just disgusted by these clowns. 

the dude3/19/2017 10:38:26 PM

Agree TC.  Too many games decided by odd officiating. Every game, called differently.

One example, Michigan against Louisville.  Wagner would initiate contact all game and then flop around when Louisville players responded to his grabbing and clutching them.  Example two, Frank Mason charges into players and pushes with his off hand on every drive, gets a ton of calls, never gets called.  The NBA lottery pick guys all have their NBA "carry" dribble down pat, its hard to play D when a lightning quick guard is allowed "hesitation dribble" by carrying the ball for .75 seconds.

Final example, off the ball, you can basically get away with anything.  The Big 10 teams in particular look like the old Big East teams, watch for instance Wisconsin's Guards off the ball "boxing out" or any rebounder who has position on his man, the amount of shoves in the back to get rebounds today I've seen, dozens.  Foul calls on that play, under 3. 

1

the sons of liberty3/19/2017 11:23:19 PM

The new "Cinderellas" are lower level football schools that haven't been to the Sweet 16 in the last 15 or 20 years. 

1

the dude3/20/2017 4:45:39 PM

Thought this would delight some of our readers here. Bilas, a man who spent the selection show, rather than pointing out the virtual black out of non Power 5's, but instead  railing against the heinous atrocity committed on Duke (2 seed, paired with Nova) and Syracuse (86 RPI not selected) now wonders why there are no Cinderellas in the Sweet 16:

Remaining Cinderellas? South Carolina, a Power 5 conference team going to its first Sweet 16? Closest thing NCAA Tournament has this year.

 2h

Jay Bilas @JayBilas

Remaining Cinderellas? Michigan, a team in the 2013 NCAA Championship Game? Wisconsin, two Final Fours last three years? Nah.

 

6

the dude3/22/2017 8:34:50 PM

Eve of the perhaps the best 4 days in College Hoops (unless you prefer the first 2 rounds of crazy wall to wall action.

Meanwhile, GW's 2nd best defeated opponent UCF has turned out to have been a very good team this season, currently blowing out Illinois in the NIT.  Tacko Fall is a beast, looks like he will have a Manute bol type of NBA career.  Higher ceiling I'd posit.  Bol Bol is on the way too.

bigfan3/22/2017 10:54:05 PM

Guess since we busted so many people's CBI brackets, they'll have to turn to the NCAA tournament instead.

3

the dude3/23/2017 6:11:10 PM

Does former GW big rival Xavier pull of another huge upset tonight? Can Biggy Swanigan and Purdue? Will Gonzaga handle the West VA press? 

the dude3/23/2017 9:17:01 PM

Dylan Ennis, who busted a lot of brackets by choking a game for 1 seed Nova in 2014, tried his best tonight to do the same 3 years later for Oregon, missing (all) 3 straight FTs including the 1-1.  Walton's shot alas misses and we still have a tourney without a buzzer beater or single iconic moment.

The Pac 12 continues to impress.  

 

the dude3/23/2017 10:48:16 PM

America's Greatest Coach back to the Elite 8.  Props to Huggins too, also a helluva Coach, that pressure is hellish.

The Slipper Still Fits

4

dc native3/23/2017 11:15:22 PM

Gonzaga is the undisputed gold standard for mid majors.

7

the dude3/23/2017 11:55:24 PM

Well said DCN, that they are.

jammer3/24/2017 1:38:44 AM

put Chris Mack on that shortlist of best Coaches. Incredible job without their star player 

3

the mv3/24/2017 9:25:10 AM

Note to self:  In future NCAA tournaments, figure out which teams are missing key players and rather than be scared off by that, pick them to go far in my bracket.  Oregon without Bouchard and Xavier without Sumter...each in the Elite 8.  Amazing.

the dude3/24/2017 5:57:30 PM

Kethan's Butler team had TWO wins over the #1 team this year, do they take down a #1 seed in the Sweet 16 tonight?

 

 

mojo risin3/24/2017 7:16:22 PM

Savage gets the start again 

1

mojo risin3/24/2017 7:19:10 PM

A three and then a monster block to start the game. 

1

the dude3/24/2017 8:05:08 PM

Kethan had more sucessful rim attacks and more blocks in that first half than Sina had in his entire college career.  8 points, 2 assists a board, a block, 0 TOS. 

Unfortunately UNC can't miss.

maine colonial3/24/2017 9:35:11 PM

Kethan concluded his college career tonight when NN beat Butler. GW was mentioned when Kethan went to the line in the first half. 

1

maine colonial3/24/2017 9:42:27 PM

NC, obviously. 

the dude3/25/2017 12:01:52 AM

Congrats to Kethan, solid game, 2 NCAA Tourney wins, and a great year.  Proved he was a very good point guard afterall. Good decisions, low TOs, exceptional rim attacker. Nice pro career awaits.

 

2

the dude3/25/2017 1:56:24 AM

Also, incredible Wisconsin comeback.  Amazing game.   This Wisconsin senior class brought in by Bo Ryan has been tremendous in the NCAA Tourney, what a ride for 4 years.

Watching South Carolina, that Florida and Wisconsin game, Gonzaga and West VA, you see what max effort defense teams look like.  Watching UCLA and their minimal defensive effort was dissapointing. The Kentucky guys have finally decided to play D themselves, and they now look very dangerous.

thomas3/25/2017 3:30:14 PM

About Wisconsin, what happens in the future now that the last of Bo Ryan's recruits are starting to graduate? I believe the seniors Nigel Hayes and Bronson Koening are the last remaining key contributors to the back-to-back Final 4 Wisconsin teams. There is also a slight chance that sophomore Ethan Happ will declare for the draft.

I agree about UCLA's defensive effort. Look at how UCLA defended Kentucky compared to how Wichita State defended them!! After the Wichita State game, De'Aaron Fox and Malik Monk seemed to be confused as to why they struggled for a lot of the game, they seemed to think it was something they did when it was actually the hard-nosed Wichita State guys playing hard-nosed, rugged defense on them.

the dude3/25/2017 3:56:33 PM

Thomas, good question.  How central a role did Gard have in the recruiting? Very long time Bo Ryan assistant, I think it comes down to that. What a run for Bo Ryan's teams (Ethan Happ can't possibly be an NBA pick right?)  Lot of fun seeing Wisconsin beat on better situated Big 10 teams under Ryan.

Some were ripping into Lonzo about his D, but it wasn't him, it was everyone else.  Nobody hedges the ball screens, no one challenges off the ball, no boxing out.  Kentucky basically had Bam setting a high ball screen on Lonzo and it was easy pickings from there.

Does Gonzaga break through tonight and make the Final 4?  Will Oregon pull the upset? Dana Altman has got to be America's most under-praised great Power 5 Coach.  Guy gets no ink, fantastic Coach.  Turned both Creighton and now Oregon into relative juggernauts.

nj colonial3/25/2017 6:27:56 PM

And this time last year, who beat Florida? The George Washington Colonials!

2

nj colonial3/25/2017 8:05:13 PM

Watching the Zags dominate X and can't help but think ... GW can and should be the Gonzaga of the East.

3

the dude3/25/2017 8:10:57 PM

NJC, amen to that.

1

maine colonial3/25/2017 8:13:04 PM

Happiness is watching the last Big East team getting bounced from the tournament by a mid-major. 

2

the dude3/25/2017 8:20:05 PM

America's Greatest Coach to The Final 4.

The best long term story in sports over the last 2 Decades:

 

 GONZAGA

4

nj colonial3/25/2017 8:23:16 PM

Maine C., thinking the same thing!  Now we need Pops to tell GU to hire Patrick Ewing...Ha!

2

maine colonial3/25/2017 8:38:08 PM

And Maryland women lose too freeing up a lot of column inches in the Post this week. 

jammer3/25/2017 8:51:09 PM

A win for every non power 5 in the sport today.  Go Zags. 

2

the dude3/25/2017 9:52:29 PM

Oregon's Jordan Bell looks like Draymond Green in this first half.  The upperclassmen who gets little ink, but does everything well and emerges as an NBA player from his Tourney play.

thomas3/25/2017 10:42:12 PM

Jordan Bell has 7 blocks tonight!! I'm seeing that he's a JR, he has the look of an elite NBA prospect with his athleticism and his ability to totally disrupt what the opposing team is trying to do offensively, but he won't get that much respect from the NBA scouts because he's not a freshman!!

1

the dude3/25/2017 11:12:01 PM

Haha so true Thomas.  Draymond if memory holds went late 1st round, same reason.

Dana Altman, what a job. A mere 77 years between Final 4 trips for Oregon.  Mixing in 18-16 seasons with a few Sweet 16 trips at a Blue blood like Indiana, not that impressive.  Making Oregon or Gonzaga into National powers, wow.  That's impressive.

 

the dude3/25/2017 11:34:37 PM

Bill Self was just asked "How come you have had so many 1 seeds that didn't make the Final 4.  This is a guy who has two NCAA finals, 1 NCAA Title, took Tulsa to the Elite 8, Illinois to the Elite 8, 13 straight Big 12 Titles, 9 Elite 8's, all at the age of 54. 

Yesterday someone asked Mark Few about the "Monkey on his back" this is a guy who has Coached Gonzaga to 18 straight NCAA tourneys and 27 NCAA wins! There's no Monkey on his back, he's been carrying a tiny basketball program on HIS back for 18 years!

No one would dare ask that Question of the Grand Poobah, Duke Coach Kypocrisy! "why do you lose to so many lesser seeds Coach?"  "How come you haven't beat a better seed in 24 seasons?"

 

1

the dude3/26/2017 3:03:31 PM

CBS must be thrilled that instead of an Elite 8 with  Duke and Villanova in a fever pitched MSG, they have defensive oriented, football first fan bases South Carolina and Florida.  Add in a non functioning shot clock!

How did Jim Sparnarkel get a prominent broadcasting career with this voice? Can barely him, sounds like Shaggy from Scooby Doo.

South Carolina, watching them the last 2 weeks you wonder how they lost so many games to bad SEC teams.

 

thomas3/26/2017 4:36:14 PM

I believe South Carolina was offensively challenged during the year, and for almost all of Frank Martin's tenure. They've caught fire at the right time in the NCAA tournament. An argument could've been made that South Carolina didn't even belong in the tournament if you look at their wins and losses. Now they are on the verge of the Final 4!!

Maine Colonial,  the Maryland woman lost, but the Post still has to devote time to Melo Trimble's draft decision!!!

1

the dude3/26/2017 5:19:47 PM

SC, 24-7 11-7 SEC last year and left out.  This year, 22-9 12-6 and bounced game 1 to Alabama SEC tourney.  Really could have been Thomas. In reality, over-seeded at  #7.

Long rebuild, took him 5 years to  make the NCAA tourney at South Carolina, I guess it was a pile of $ because he had things in good shape at Kansas St, a similarly situated program. You can't blame a guy who 20 years ago was a bouncer and HS Coach.  He's basically still a "bouncer" Looks like a real charmer.  If we had him 50 years ago the Bay of Pigs invasion would have gone differently.

Sindarious Thornwell is another upperclassmen who looks like he should be in the NBA.  It helps to have the Lonzo Ball hype machine.  Frankly, Thornwell looks like the more NBA type of guy.

the dude3/26/2017 5:22:10 PM

As for UNC, maybe Roy has just been fortunate, but he seems to get a huge % of the McDonald's All American guy who stay for 4 years.  He's starting 4 of them this season. Perhaps  its a strategy and if so, rather brilliant, but I think its just good fortune.  Surely he's not passing on the 1 and done type guys, just not landing many of them.

 

 

bm3/26/2017 6:53:54 PM

Duane Notice played with Yuta at STM.  He was lightly recruited IIRC.

the dude3/26/2017 8:21:26 PM

Canadian too, if memory holds (Notice)

Wow, tremendous Finish to the UNC vs Kentucky game.  Great decision by Roy to not call a TO there, most coaches would have.  Disorganized UK defense led to an open look for Maye and the win

hippo man3/26/2017 8:46:42 PM

Nah most coaches wouldn't have called timeout because under 10 seconds off a made basket is what Carolina and others thrive on with live ball push and an unorganized defense. Notice Pinson pushed and drew two thus leaving Maye open.

2

thomas3/26/2017 8:50:51 PM

I remember South Carolina totally imploded last season, they went from an NCAA lock to the NIT in a 10-14 day period. They almost did the same again this year, someone posted on twitter that they finished the season 2-5(that includes the first round SEC tourney loss to Alabama), but the 12-6 conference record put them in the tournament. There was also a twitter post about Frank Martin coaching Miami Senior high school to the 1996 Arby's Classic title, and 21 years later he's in the Final 4. It kind of went unnoticed, but F.Martin did a great job at Kansas State, he always had them just a notch below an elite level meaning they'd always upset Kansas, Texas or whoever else was in 1st place in the Big 12 and they'd be a 4, 5 or 6 seed in the NCAA tournament. He left South Carolina because they offered him a boatload of money and it finally paid off today with a Final 4 appearance.

North Carolina had a team of veterans but they almost gave the game away by making the mistakes that you'd expect from a youthful team who hadn't won or played in big games. In the final minute, UNC missed free throws and had a 5-second call against them when they tried to inbound the ball. Monk and Fox(I think) hit two threes that tied the game. They did compose themselves on the final play where Pinson drove the ball to the basket and passed it to a wide open Maye who hit the shot to win it. On a final possession like that, I think it's best for your fastest player to drive to the basket, the defenders will either all collapse on him which should leave multiple guys wide open or they'll be afraid to foul and he'll get an uncontested layup or dunk. Now everyone is influenced by Steph Curry, so in late game situations they take a long 3-pointer to win the game instead of going to the basket. Michigan's guard Walton did that at the end of the game against Oregon.

Roy Williams lucked out with this group of players because they are the rare exceptions of highly-touted/McDonald's All-American types who stayed in school because they weren't going to be drafted as lottery picks. A lot of these players declare for the draft after 1 or 2 years no matter what.

1

hippo man3/26/2017 9:48:49 PM

Saw this on ESPN ...

Minutes coached in Final 4 ...

Roy Williams 520

Frank Martin 0

Dana Altman 0

Mark Few 0

 

Crazy!

3

link3/27/2017 12:13:14 AM

CBI article

the dude3/27/2017 12:13:55 AM

For starters, am I right in reading that in RK's GWhoops NCAA tourney group, Thomas and I are the only 2 who have a Finalist or Champion left?  That's pretty wild.  Looks like a 2 man race T.

Frank Martin, HS Coach was his his day gig, the guy was seriously a bouncer at night until he was 30.  Its really an incredible story.  Huge success at K St, a place which had become tough to win and locked ceased to be a top program.  South Carolina took longer than expected but they've finally arrived.  It didn't take Bruce Weber long to do what Bruce Weber does, take a program in great shape from a great coach and turn it back to mediocrity. Imagine if Frank Martin or Dana Altman ever got to Coach a blueblood (or Few, Gregg Marshall, Bo Ryan, etc)

Thomas I agree, lets call it "Tyus Edney plays"   In sharp contrast, a timeout, and set play into a set defense, much lower odds I'd posit.  

Monk, Fox and Bam, what type of NBA careers? I know people think Monk is a clear high lottery pick, but I think Fox is going to be the far better pro.  Bam, is the perfect role player, sets great screens, rebounds, he's willing to do whatever and doesn't need the ball.  Joakim Noah with a lower hoops IQ, IMO.  Thoughts?  What about the UNC guys who all stayed, any of them have long NBA careers ahead? Justin Jackson looks like a no brainer, amazing he's been there for 3 years. The others?

rkelley3/27/2017 1:28:47 AM

Yeah my bracket totally shit the bed after day-1. Things were looking good when the choices were obvious.

I don't really ever get a chance to watch Pac-12 basketball, so I didn't see Oregon coming. When I saw they lost Boucher, like everyone else I figured they wouldn't get past Michigan. And to be fair, they almost didn't. 

Michigan really missed an opportunity. This is a great team. They rain threes, Walton Jr. is fast, Wagner has size and a load of offensive tools. The Princeton-type offense they run, and their well-roundedness poses all kinds of problems for opponents who don't get a lot of time to prepare. They looked good, but they played it close too much and then really screwed themselves with a mental mistake in the final minutes against Oregon. If we played these games one more time, very good chance we'd have a Wisconsin vs. Michigan in the championship.

Gonzaga is going to win it all. We all know it. We were set up for this storyline pre-tourney. They get so many calls, every game. They're a talented team no doubt, but they have the media and refs behind them.

Wisconsin, while their regular-season work doesn't exactly scream winner was the best team in this tournament. Koenig is a superstar and a leader, and that team bought in behind him and Hayes. Then they have other excellent veteran players that round them out in Showalter and Happ. They played with confidence, they made the clutch plays, they had excellent defense adn rebounding skills, they controlled the tempo. They just lost a rough one on an unbelievable play by Chiozza.

South Carolina and Xavier are both scary-good teams. South Carolina--I'm amazed they weren't better during the season.They're all size and athleticism, almost unstoppable. Xavier, if they hold onto Bluiett and Macura and they get some more speed at guard they could repeat or go further next year. I miss having them in the A-10.

I should've never picked Duke. Too many chiefs, not enough team cohesiveness. They lack the point guard their team requires. They don't have a pure leader that rises above the rest. They're not the polished, cerebral Duke team of decades past.  I think part of that stems from high school stars now going to Duke/Kentucky instead of the NBA. I don't think that meshes with Coach Ks gameplan and coaching style. Talent is the most important ingredient, but it's definitely not the only one. Allen plays hero ball, and after looking amazing last year, appears to actually drag the team down multiple times this year. Part of it is the team's lack of a pure point guard, part of it is his personality seems unchecked. Kennard is role player, an excellent shooter, who really benefitted from the talent around him spreading defenses. He's not the impact shooter Redick was. Closer to Scheyer. They don't have good soldiers to play crucial roles either.

 

rkelley3/27/2017 1:36:26 AM

If I had to rank the top ten teams,betting on the numbers of games they'd win over 100 matches these would be my rankings:

1. Gonzaga

2. Wisconsin

3. Kentucky

4. UNC

5. Kansas

6. Michigan

7. West Virginia

8. Florida

9. Oregon

10. South Carolina

the dude3/27/2017 2:13:02 AM

I agree with a lot of what you wrote RK, but I have to take umbrage at the tourney is all rigged for Gonzaga! The NCAA does not want Gonzaga, they want Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Carolina.  Gonzaga costs them a HUGE amount of $.  The refs are rigging the tourney for Gonzaga? Cmon! The NCAA paired with West Virgina and Arizona!

I think I see a trend, you like offensive execution teams.  Defense as I try to remind you matters just as much.  Watch the defense Gonzaga plays and compare that to Michigan (a great offensive team and really fun to watch)

Wisconsin I have great respect for, and agree they were dangerous. No team plays harder or smarter than Wisconsin.  

The thing about Duke, all year long they did not look like a National Title team, I don't know why people seem to put so much stock into the Conference Tourneys.  Suddenly they went from a 5 seed to a 2/1 seed in a matter of 4 days. Same team!  Great point guards like you said, essential, a vital missing piece for Duke like I said back in December, and defense.  Duke is a soft defensive team and was all year. They did get 58 of the 60 #1 pre-season Votes, so when I point out Coach K was upset for the (correction) 9th time in 13 seasons, it was no small feat given all the talent, but predictable IMO.

In my view, the top 2 teams are the same as they were all season, UNC and Gonzaga.  Deep, big frontcourts, good Guards, experienced and old.  A bad call/foul trouble is not going to knock them out of a tourney, nor do they require draining 3's, so unlike Kansas an off shooting night would not be enough to  bounce them out either.  If you have depth/rely on the 3, you are suseceptible to an exit, hard to win 6 straight tourney games that way.

the mv3/27/2017 10:12:08 AM

Thomas, I strongly agree with your thoughtful analysis on end-of-game plays.  Had never attributed the problem to a Steph Curry influence but I suppose there is some validity to this.  There have been too many times this season where in an end-of-game situation, when a team needs a two to tie or take the lead, a guard dribbles the clock down only to take a difficult, contested three point shot.  No semblance of a play, no real strategy.  Walton's shot was one he has hit plenty of times.  However, there was zero effort made to find a better shot.  Teams would rather take a bad shot to tie or win a game if that means not giving the opponent any time to work with if they score, as opposed to taking a good shot and then risk getting beat by a buzzer beater.  The UNC finish was great because it resulted in a wide open two point shot to win the game.  Had that shot presented itself with 10 seconds left in the game, I wonder if it would have even been taken.

Suffice it to say that watching my Badgers go down Friday night was not easy.  Nice to read some complementary remarks about them but compared to some recent Badger squads, this one paled in comparison.  While Koenig has a flare for making huge shots and Nigel returned to his sophomore form duing this NCAA tournament, the fact is that this year's team was not a great outside shooting team and has been pointed out a zillion times, was an anemic free throw shooting team.  It did not see many teams like Florida this year, a super athletic team that got hot from three.  Thought Florida deserved the win though I will spend the summer outraged over Ethan's 4th foul, a ley moment in the game and a terrible call (even if you disagree about the block/charge side of it, there is zero question that the Florida defender was in the restricted zone and was ineligible to draw a charge).

There should be little mystery to the question of why South Carolina lost so many games during the season.  Frank Martin.  Try not to misunderstand this because I think Martin cares about his kids and loves them deep down.  However, as a basketball player, there is only so much profusive shouting and blame you can take from a coach before tuning it out.  There is only so much intensity you can play with in a February game against Mississippi State.  Martin only knows one way to coach, and it's why the team started 15-0 last year and then imploded.  After SC struggled down the stretch this season, Martin the motivator got his team back.  Two in-state games didn't hurt, at least it gave Martin a real theme to rally around.  From there, it was "if we are good enough to beat Duke, then why not Baylor and Florida?" (who they had already beaten).  Frank got his team believing again and he is to be credited for that.  But if you can't understand why SC has lost as much as it has in recent seasons, look no further than their coach and how he goes about his business.

tennessee colonial3/27/2017 11:37:30 AM

Even the Kentuckys of the world get shafted by the refs. 

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thomas3/27/2017 7:38:06 PM

The Dude,  yeah we are the only ones in the ESPN group who have a champion still alive. Most people picked Duke, but as you pointed out Coach K has now become notorious for getting upset in the NCAA tournament. It seems as if I pick Duke to get upset in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament every year!! Exactly how did Frank Martin get into college coaching? I know he built Miami Senior High School into a powerhouse in the mid to late 90's. Was he able to parlay that into an assistant job?

Bam needs 1 or 2 more years of college but I'm guessing Calipari has 3 or 4 five-star McDonald's All-Americans coming in next year, so Bam is feeling the pressure to declare for the draft. Fox is definitely the best pro prospect of the 3, not only is he lightning quick, his vertical/athleticism is off the charts. The only knock on him is his physical stature, Wichita State did a pretty good job containing him by being physical.

The MV,  the reason I attributed the late game deep 3-point attempts to Steph Curry is because of a game against Oklahoma City last year when he pulled up and hit a 3 from half-court(it seemed) to win the game. I noticed that he took deep 3's like that a lot late in close games, and then I saw college guys doing it. In the closing seconds of the MAAC championship game that was tied up, an Iona player pulled up for a deep 3 when all he needed was a 2 to win it(Iona still went on to win in OT). About Derrick Walton, I understand that he has knocked down contested 3's a lot during Michigan's hot streak, but he's also excellent at getting to the rim and finishing/drawing contact. To me, the higher perecentage player is driving to the rim.  

That's a great observation on Frank Martin. The profusive shouting after every play(good or bad)has to get old real quick which probably explains the late-season collapses South Carolina has had. In yesterday's win over Florida, Frank Martin was even yelling at players when there was a stoppage of play due to a scoreboard malfuntion and the score was like 2-2. I mean, what could he possibly be worked up about when the score is 2-2!!!

What do you think happens with Wisconsin in the future now that Nigel Hayes, Bronson Koenig and Vitto Brown(possibly the last of Bo Ryan's great recruits) are gone? Can Greg Gard maintain what Bo Ryan built? Has he been bringing in good recruits? His situation always interested me because it seemed as if Bo Ryan stepped down and kind of forced Wisconsin to hire his guy.

the dude3/28/2017 1:15:18 AM

Thomas, yea man.  Early signs on Gard, not great, early recruits, not great.  Hope that's wrong as it would be nice to see the Bo Ryan legacy prolonged.

Bam, Dwight Howard, Kevin Marfo.  When you get to 20, and your offensive skills are this undeveloped, I think big time development, its not going to happen.  Dwight can board and play D, but if he could have added anything but 3 feet of range and handle, he'd be all time great.  I think Bam and Marfo will look pretty similar two years from now to what they look today.  The thing with Bam is that he doesn't try to handle, doesn't turn the ball over, isn't prone to the mistake Marfo made, he just does the things he does well (sets pick, boards, defensive presence, high motor)  I think Marfo really needs to become a very poor man's Bam, because I don't see the offense ever coming around. 

The Martin story is crazy, he's a bouncer, he gets shot at, he decides to just Coach JV full time, becomes the HS coach, they have a lot of success but he's fired for some scandals.  He ends up at Northeastern at age 34 for his first real gig, and then lands on the Huggins staff, which eventually brings him to Kansas St. I believe Huggins had landed him Beasley and Walker, leaving Frank with quite a parting gift, when Hugs bolts for WVU, which helped launch Frank, and he did great from there.  Its sort of like being left Goss and Juice Williams if you are Mojo, same thing basically.

 

2

the mv3/28/2017 10:39:57 AM

Thomas, I had concerns regarding the Ryan-Gard transition.  Ryan coached an additional half season than he was supposed to specifically because he wanted Gard to have the job and he had been tending to his cancer-struck father (who eventually died) and was in no shape to be named head coach at that time.  When Bo left mid-season, there was little choice but to name Gard the interim.  He shed that tag very quickly.  Gard has adopted many of Bo's coaching philosophies while injecting a faster paced, more efficient offense when available (something Bo later embraced as well when he had the players who could execute at a faster pace).  If anything, Gard's recruits have been more highly regarded than Bo's.  Every once in a while, Bo would bring in a highly rated local player, Sam Dekker being an example, but by and large, Bo prided himself in bringing in "system guys" who weren't that highly rated but who could play the way he wanted them to.  As for Gard, he has two four star recruits (top 100 players) in Brad Davison and Nathan Reuvers coming in, along with Wisconsin's POY in Kobe King.  They redshirt Aleem Ford, a Georgian who played very well at IMG Academy.  If these guys pan out as expected, Wisconsin should be more than fine.  Ethan Happ will be back, Trice had a very promising freshman year and will now run the point, Khalil Iverson is Nigel Hayes's understudy, Brevin Pritzl was regarded as the team's best outside shooter in practice this year, even if he only had limited opportunities in games.  Some people will think that they are headed for a fall because they are used to seeing around 4 proven performers return to the team each season, and with the looses of 4 key players, many people will only know Happ, Trice, and maybe Iverson (and maybe Hill though he disappointed this season).  Nevertheless, I am as convinced as ever that Gard is the right guy and the school's remarkable streak of top 4 finishes in the Big 10 (16 straight years and counting) will continue.

jfw3/28/2017 10:22:51 PM

GW made a blunder in Mojo. Should have hired a HS coach and part time bouncer instead.  I hope you all get the point of this post. 

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maine colonial3/29/2017 5:20:18 AM

John Thompson Jr. was a HS coach...Was he also a part-time bouncer because he certainly had the build for it?

1

not jfw3/29/2017 9:57:32 AM

If the point of your post was demonstrating your lack of intelligence then I think we all got it.

jfw3/29/2017 12:03:57 PM

Point was of course a reference to Frank Martin success. Weeks of only listing coaches with gaudy records at small conferences. 

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says here3/29/2017 12:34:44 PM

'not JFW' = The MV.  

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bo knows3/29/2017 1:36:43 PM

Can't say for sure who is posting under all these new names but I doubt it is the MV. As far as I can tell, based on many years experience, the MV will say what he wants under the MV name. Curiously, a certain other poster begins with D and ends with E with a UD in between has many possible monikers (43 currently) according to Herve. I think I would look there first. I know Herve hasn't the time but I'd love to see a comparison of the number of new names or infrequent (less than 10 posts) use names on this board, PDA (Pre Dude Arrival) and ADA (After Dude Arrival). I would bet the differential is staggering. I am sure the Dude would assert that it is sheer coincidence.

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