ziik6/15/2016 9:01:10 PM
Admittedly, as a forner caddy, I have an anti-golf bias. But, just wondering. Is there any discipline in the game at all? I know Phil is a "good guy" But, he's been caught several times doing things that just are not kosher. How can he get away with that?
BC6/15/2016 9:25:48 PM
I don't know how culpable he is, but he's a tarnished man in my view.
ELJ6/15/2016 9:34:25 PM
What's his latest supposed no-no? I must've missed it.
ziik6/15/2016 9:57:07 PM
Playing in a fixed game of stock transactions, ELJ. Has to repay his unearned "profits." I have a represented quite a few guys who would have been pleased to repay what they stole, after they were caught. None were given any real options.
notta hater6/16/2016 8:51:14 AM
I read an article about "why men cheat" and it suggested that their success in business, politics and sports is related to their willingness to take high-level risks. Even though their success ratio is so great (which is why they are stars in their fields) they either miscalculate or simply the percentages catch-up to them at some point. Golf strikes me as that type of sport. The ones who are the best of the best simply take risks. Phil is no different. I don't judge him, I simply understand him.
The MV6/16/2016 9:14:44 AM
Phil is a noted gambler as has been chronicled in many places. Reportedly won at least $500,000 on one of the Raven super bowl wins. To his possible defense, it may very well be that the individual who had made Phil quite a bit of money in the past told him that he had something without going into any detail about what that something was. Plausible deniability. Phil says "fine" but has no real idea of what he's approving. He may even have known that inside info. was nvolved but had no idea what this info was. He should pay the profits back and probably a negligible penalty on top of that. But to throw him in jail for writing a check and having no idea about what was involved strikes me as harsh. And again, I understand that this assumes my scenario of his really not knowing what the inside info was to be true.
The MV6/16/2016 9:51:33 AM
Ziik, if you ever nab Phil for throwing a golf match or betting on a golf tournament in general, you got him. If he walks into a Vegas sports book and plunks a huge sum down on the Ravens to win a Super Bowl, then you don't. One is illegal and one is perfectly legal.
The Dude6/16/2016 10:22:21 AM
Phil also peaked at his sport in the very years NO Golfer EVER peaks in his sport. So the cheating he does at stocks, is not the only cheating he does in life, unless you think his sudden physical transformation in his 40s and rapid rise to finally winning Majors is "Au Natural"
The MV6/16/2016 10:58:07 AM
Ziik, what is there to discern? You may not like the fact that he gambles on other sports but as long as he does it legally, it's his money. And, are we really going to get into why star athletes receive special treatment? Always have and always will. Jordan was a notorious gambler who was such a superstar that his league suspended him without ever calling it a suspension or having him admit any wrongdoing. As for the PGA, they surely would have suspended him, if not banned him from the game, if he was ever caught cheating or gambling on a tournament where he was a participant. Would an average Joe have done jail time in this insider trading incident? I'm not so sure. The feds got his buddy, who was the guy in the know and as such, the guy they really wanted.
The Dude6/16/2016 12:51:14 PM
Maybe the Public persona of Phil the nice guy masks the real Phil?? the cheating, thrill seeker with a greed complex?
Ah well, that would describe a lot of men in America, Phil just has the $ fame and legal team to pull it all off.
The MV6/16/2016 4:17:30 PM
Ziik, my question to you is whether you see a distinction between a pro athlete betting on or within his own sport as opposed to a Phil betting on a Super Bowl. It sounds like you don't, and you are of course entitled to feel that way. I just view it as a world of difference.
ziik6/16/2016 4:38:02 PM
Well, MV, the SUPERBOWL. Hell, that is sacred. I think it is just an All American thing to bet on. Every American ought to be compelled to bet on it. The Final 4, too. Next time we get into a World War, questions about SuperBowl and Final 4 betting will help seperate the good guys from the bad guys, just like "Who won the 39 World Series, Huh? Don't know? You must be a Jap from Japland, Not An American Jap." Questions like that kept guys like Martin Milner from being executed, when guys like John Wayne found them in compromising positions. Good thing, too.
Seriously, I think it is damned easy to define the scope of acceptable behavior for pro athletes, MV. I think pr gold needs to consider Phil's actions to date, and spell out some rules accordingly, "I was not convicted of a criminal offense," ought not to be the deciding factor.
BC6/16/2016 8:32:43 PM
Isn't this the second or third time Phil has been involved in something less than up & up? Just a vague recollection. To be open, I've always been less than fond of him.
The Dude6/17/2016 12:22:38 AM
BC, in a word...YES.
thinker6/17/2016 12:59:31 AM
What Phil did is outright illegal insider trading. It's hard to understand why he was almost completely let off the hook. A securities lawyer I know thinks there must be something missing from the story like Phil secretly cooperated with the SEC or something.
Cutis6/17/2016 6:28:31 AM
So much cynicism among the posters related to this hall of fame golfer. I met Phil on two separate occasions. Both times I was impressed by his kindness. Phil and Amy Michelson have offered numerous college scholarships to junior high school science students for their college education. Phil has been a spokesman for patients with psoriatic arthritis and a spokekesman for Enbrel ,a very important medication for the treatment of psoriasis and arthritis. Tho compensated well for this his believability has encouraged many patients to try this very efficacious product. I am in Phil's corner. He is one of the good guys.
notta hater6/17/2016 7:36:40 AM
hold on Cutis - you had me with your post until you mentioned he was a spokesman for a treatable condition that could be treated with a drug he gets paid to promote. You don't truly mean that largesse is the reason for his being a "spokesman" do you? That's just plain old fashion silly on your part.
The Dude6/17/2016 9:01:32 AM
Notta, agreed. LOL, the guy gets paid highly to hawk a pharma drug for an hour or 2 of time (probably in the millions for a national ad campaign) and that is evidence of what a great guy he is? ROFL.
"Insider Trading" is really just a euphemism. When the uber rich break the law in this fashion, they aren't just breaking the law, they are stealing $ from lesser privileged folks who don't have the "Inside trade" info. One might have a different take if we called it STEALING, which boiled down to its essence, it is. But then again, a super rich famous guy will often get off lightly for stealing millions, an average joe shoplifts and its off to jail for that poor shlub. Good microcosm of our Oligarchical society.
The MV6/17/2016 10:33:29 AM
For the love of God, STOP. You don't know what he knew and what he perhaps specifically was not told for his own protection. He's a target and you want to throw stones at him, I get it. But I sincerely doubt that anyone here knows or understands the true specifics regarding this episode. You may think you know, or you're more than willing to assume, but you don't know shit for a fact. Much like virtually all of the time when it comes to some posters here.
The Dude6/17/2016 11:21:34 AM
Seek some anger management if you want to post on the internet. Might help you (and everyone else here)
Or just dig for yourself, there really isn't a factual mystery, Phil was Insider trading and got let off the hook, its really that simply.
The MV6/17/2016 12:05:47 PM
ziik6/17/2016 12:30:49 PM
I am sorely tempted to say, "Nevermind," after all, cause everybody wants to give Phil a pass, him being a nice guy. But, I have seen more than my share of nice guys, who got no breaks at all from the law. None. No discretion by the police, or the prosecutor or the judge. Regular guys who get jammed up for no reason other than the way they look, or, maybe, just the police having a bad day.
Yesterday, I witnessed an assault. It came after a minor auto accident. The accident itself was one of very few I have seen that were damned near unavoidable. But, one guuy went nuts, and assaulted the other driver while he still was strapped into his seat. I was the only witness to step up. As a consequence, the grateful Officer Friendly gave me a ride home in the back of his cruiser. But, first he needed to handle some routine. And, I was stuck in the back seat, no air, no window, no access to a door handle, no way to get out. I got 5-10 minutes of accidentally being treated like a perp. I have been in jails, prisons, etc., to visit clients. They are inhumane. Solitary would be unimaginable. Well, not really. But, inhmane to the nth degree. Long sentences, like we give in this country, are sadistic. My 5 minutes of Hell, given my bad heart, was tough to take. Knowing it was just the routine, well, try it some time.
If Phil committed an offense, he ought to have owned up to it, and been made to pay from out of pocket. If not, nobody ought to have mentioned it. Nothing.
But, the perception is that he skated. That helps nobody. If he had to sit 5 minutes in the back of a locked police cruiser, he would have learned a life's lesson. But, only if he acted criminally. If not, the government ought to shut the hell up. They created these impressions that he has acted badly.
Sorry for the wandering, and wasted electrons.
MV-don't reply to Dude if you don't like him. But, why reply, reply, reply, then blame him?
Maybe we all are 4 year olds at heart. Herve, sorry.
I guess I feel guilty myself. There is another guy in jail right now, entirely because of my statements to the police about his actions. His wife and 2 kids, no doubt, will be gunning for me.
The MV6/17/2016 2:05:05 PM
Ziik, I'll answer. It's a bit of a quandary. On the one hand, I don't like anyone here spouting off irresponsibly. The Dude is really taking his cues from Trump; he is a shoot first and ask questions later type of poster (I apologize for that metaphor so soon after last week's tragedy in Orlando). He never has any facts to support what he is saying and seems to like telling me and others where it comes to facts to "look them up because it's so simple", as opposed to he himself actually looking them up.. You know how I cited an article to prove why you were mistaken about Hornung/Karras not gambling on football? The next time that The Dude ever factually proves a point along these lines (by citing a real source) will be the first time. And yet, he would have everyone believe that he has all of the facts, when he typically has none of them. That kind of poster is normally hazardous.
On the other hand, I also have to acknowledge that The Dude has earned the respect of practically nobody on this site. At least some of the few who tend to side with him are undoubtedly his own alter egos. The very thing he routinely accuses Bo of doing (posting under multiple names) is something that he regularly does himself. So because so few if any actually enjoy or respect his posts, I do need to step back from time to time and ask myself whether his total bullshit is actually affecting anyone or anything. In other words, if nobody could give a flying fuck over what he has to say, if most sane people here realize what an absolete fraud he is without any credibility whatsoever, then why get upset over anything he has to say? If nobody has any respect for him, then who is it really harming? It is a valid argument.
So yes, I blame him when his douchebaggery knows no bounds, but probably shouldn't for the reasons given.
ziik6/17/2016 2:26:41 PM
Well, there you go again, MV. (Sorry) But, you really don't need to direct a reply to me, and use it as an excuse to take another dum on The Dude. Wny bother? Why bother, and then claim you anw to ignore?
ANyway. I doubt you are old enough, but I am, to have seen Paul Hornung, Alex Karras et al The suspensions were a damned big deal at the time. And, hey nailed the two principal players at critical junctions. Cost them a truly key year. One prevailing view was Ol Pete, who was Young Pete, was just establishing his bona fides by going after bid time stars.
Paul really was a golden boy. He had the looks, skills, and charm. He'd be a billionaire in today's markets, if his skills held up. But, I guess he can no longer cut to the hole.
Bo Knows6/18/2016 12:47:03 PM
MV - #Ignore, I'm telling you it works. You can't argue with a crazy person. You can only hope they seek the help they need.
notta hater6/19/2016 10:19:08 AM
the intersection between sports and shady behavior is never ending. Denny McLain - Art Schlichter - Pete Rose - Tulane - City College - Black Sox - Boston College - Jagr - John Daly - Tocchet (Gretsky's wife implicated) - Mike Vick . . . and when it comes to shady business deals and athletes it would fill a whole post if you truly thought about the guys who were former athletes who are in jail or bankrupt because of deals that we would all take a pass on or at least ask "Repeat that -- you want me to do what?!?!?"
Rich Maier6/19/2016 11:18:05 AM
thinker, if you've followed the Mickelson insider trading case you'd know that he cooperated with the FBI and SEC.