thinker9/20/2016 10:19:33 AM
I can understand some of what's going on in this unfortuante mess. I can't understand how we could be into the 6th day (assuming that ML was told last Thursday) of all of this and GW still has not made one peep about transition. I'm starting to fear a Delaware situation where the coach was gone, the AD was gone and there was no one to make decisions and so simply nothing was done.
If GW felt it had to fire ML, so be it. But you can't do that without an active transition plan. Each day that goes on like this I fear the apocolypse more.
GW05099/20/2016 10:28:33 AM
I have to think they've put feelers out to outside coaches and are awaiting responses before promoting one of our assistants.
18.104.22.1689/20/2016 10:29:23 AM
Please read FDR's first Inaugural Address
22.214.171.1249/20/2016 11:02:44 AM
Hajj will be interim unless it is determined he was not truthful to investigators. Plan B is Carmen.
The MV9/20/2016 11:54:15 AM
Thinker, as far as our little world of GW basketball is concerned, you should feel free to fear the apocolypse starting right now. The past four seasons, this program has been rebuilt and its trajectory has unquestionably rose. Consider all of that to be thrown away. Here is what I'm expecting:
Coaches: I don't see a currently employed coach elsewhere leaving where they are at this point in time. Sutton is a viable candidate for the future but to pick up and leave Pitt this week reaks of unprofessionalism. Gary, Jarvis, Larry Brown? Afraid not. So it's not like Hajj or Carmen are going anywhere immediately. unless one or both are shown the door too. Either could be named Interim HC the day before practice begins; heck with GW, maybe they will wait until the night before our opening game. (Want to generate added attendance for the UMES game? Promote it as the night when GW will be introducing its new head coach. How's that for a marketing promotion!!!)
Players: Guys like Tyler and Jaren are less concerning because of their own situations. Tyler likely wants to start a pro career somewhere (I suppose he could play overseas immediately but I don't see it) and Jaren isn't going to want to sit two consecutive years. The others all have to ask themselves whether they chose GW solely to play for Lonergan or whether the school, assistant coaches, other players on the team, etc. atre important factors For all of the talk about how his players just couldn't stand him, this does not appear to apply to the current group.
Recruits: And some of you thought recruiting sucked before this shitstorm began. My guess is you're about to find out what shitty recruiting truly looks like. We were probably closest to landing Longpre of anyone we've been speaking to, and he cut his visit short this past weekend. I guess that sort of thing is expected when the head coach you were interested in playing for is suddenly no longer allowed to have any on-campus contact with you.
Ticket Sales and Donations: Some have come on this board and say that they are done with this program. My opinion is that season ticket sales may be slightly negatively impacted but only slightly. Fans threatened never to return to MLB, NHL, and even NFL games after strikes but in the end, the fans forget and return. Those of us who regularly attend games generally enjoy doing so and I, along with many others, are not about to cut off our own noses to spite our faces. Donations, however, are a different story. Attending games, once you are hooked, is like an addiction. Making donations is a strictly volunteer action where nobody ever feels that they must continue with. (Many do because they are philanthropic or it's the right thing to do, but few I imagine feel compelled to "have to" donate.)
This is where the school better have its act together. There must be a clearly communicated position on why the school reached the decision it did, what exactly happened that led to the decision, what did the investigation produce, and did ML ever have a chance to tell his side of the story before being terminated. These are the things I'd like to know in determining whether the school was justified in its decision. No, the school is not forced to reveal these details. And, individuals are not forced to donate to the school. Two way street.
Bigfan9/20/2016 12:36:18 PM
Don't see why leaving an assistant job to be head coach somewhere is an act of bad faith. People always look for promotions, particularly these days.
And if there is any lesson for basketball coaches from the Lonergan debacle it is sadly, that you need to be faithful to yourself. Loyalty is a two-way street.
And correct, GW owes its loyal fan base (small enough that they could invidually call each of us) an explanation of what went on.
Especially, given the tenor of the accusations and the lack of substance (the leaking of "that gay kid" comment doesn't cut it) produced as evidence. To fire a coach right now, after a team-bonding trip to Japan and a reign that includes graduating everyone who stayed in the program, requires an explanation.
The PR and program salvaging aspect of this has been royally screwed up, with Longpre as example number one.
Don't think we have many big donors, but suspect there a few moderate ones who should get together and ask, as the students say, WTF (happened)?
Bo Knows9/20/2016 12:42:44 PM
MV, I don't know whether the apocalypse is upon us or not. I will say that many are VERY disappointed in GW and not just for the action it took but as others have pointed out it's unpreparedness to take such an action and to determine a path forward given its timing.
As for Jaren Sina don't discount the fact that he can immediately transfer AFTER this season. His father is supposedly close to ML. That would worry me.
The MV9/20/2016 1:00:13 PM
Bigfan, I see it as an act of bad faith when you pick up and leave on September 20 (or later). Sutton has signed a contract with Pitt and even though this would represent a promotion, I think he would be professionally screwing Pitt bigtime by leaving his position at this late date. This is not at all a normal "assistant leaves to become a head coach elsewhere" situation. Those moves are usually made in March and April.
Bo, I was thinking about possible player movement as it pertained to this semester (i.e. transferring after first semester). I do not see Jaren in that category but this could be considered by some of the younger players, or perhaps even Yuta. I agree that a Sina transfer without having to sit (after this full season) is a distinct possibility.
As far as the apocolypse is concerned, any situation carries the potential of working itself out and of course, this one is no exception. However, given what's been done, how it was done, how it has likely impacted one of our top targets for next season (for the worse), and how the majority of players on the present roster have less than two years of college basketball playing experience (i.e. possible transfers with plenty of eligibility left), I don't see how anyone could view this as anything but a very grim situation. And, one that can easily keep this program way down for more than just a season or two. If you choose not to perceive this as a very real possibility, I'm afraid you're burying your head in the sand.
Long Suffering Fan9/20/2016 1:39:18 PM
Even for an interim coach, I imagine candidates still need to be interviewed and contracts reviewed, negotiated and signed. It should not take too long, but it is only the Tuesday after the appocolypse. If we don't have an interim in place by next Tuesday, I would be more concerned, but right now I am not
The Dude9/20/2016 2:19:17 PM
This broke this weekend, its Tuesday. Not the least bit concerned about that.
Concerned only with hiring the right interim Coach and the right HC. Rich's Maier's John Wooden quote seems spot on.
Rich Maier9/20/2016 2:28:26 PM
Bo, IMO more people are disappointed in ML than GW although GW screwed up royally. ML is the biggest reason for the mess we're in. This was a self-inflicted wound as many here have noted. One would think that after your error in providing info that was factually incorrect over 125 times in one thread that you would either post less or backoff completely for awhile. I do not know the details and, obviously, you don't either not then and not now.
126.96.36.1999/20/2016 2:42:04 PM
Mr Maier, very well put
Bo Knows9/20/2016 2:49:57 PM
Rich, unfortunately for you there are MANY people who are upset at GW (whether that is more or less than ML I don't know but it is many) for how this was handled (some are angry with GW for the ultimate decision, some are angry at GW for the way in which this was handled both in terms of being too late to take action at all or alternatively, failing to give ML due process and waiting putting the program in a tough spot - strange bedfellows can arise from a decision like this). You can choose to believe that or not and you can choose to agree with them or not. But don't fail to understand how many season ticketholders and perhaps donors were generated by ML's local roots/large family etc. Those people are gone yesterday.
Mentzinger9/20/2016 3:00:22 PM
Seriously. Just ML's biological family alone seemed to triple attendance at several home games, with Maggie Lonergan by far the loudest Colonials fan in the house most nights.
Rich Maier9/20/2016 3:18:54 PM
Bo, unfortunately you seem to have no clue. Looking forward to your next 125+ post on a single thread that's total misinformation. Fairly certain others are too. Good idea not to fire ML because it is disruptive to the team. Really so others can be subjected to what GW found a fireable offense. Good thinking. You don't seem to understand that GW decided it was a MUCH BIGGER risk to the university and MBB program to keep ML. Perhaps lawsuits from players? Team ML is not the only one who can go the legal route.
Bo Knows9/20/2016 3:28:21 PM
Rich, reading comprehension is apparently not your strong point. We are not discussing the decision - it has been made - it is irreversible. What we are talking about here is the fallout from the decision - effect on ticketholders/donors and the program and the effect of a future lawsuit and any revelations if this does not settle.Your failure to acknowledge that there are folks out there that are angry right now is baffling. This isn't a discussion about what would be the fallout from GW failing to make that decision - that is purely hypothetical and will never be known because that wasn't the result.
thinker9/20/2016 3:47:30 PM
From everything I understand, Hajj is not an ideal person to put in charge of the team for an extended period - for a bunch of reasons that I won't go into. I think if he was a good fit, they would have put him in that spot right away. That they didn't name him even interim interim coach speaks volumes to me.
I really don't know how appropriate Carm is or isn't.
If Nero is effectively "suspended" in some fashion from making big basketball decisions (and I have no idea if he is) then who is really able to? That's kind of scary.
This horrible situation can be made a lot better with a great decision on the next coach. Time to get to that.
Bo, really ENOUGH of the ML defense. You cannot possibly know whether he was given due process or not. Yes all of us can read his lawyer's statement. What exactly was his lawyer going to say?
He got fired because he has been a big dick to too many people and not doing what his employers asked him to do. That is COMPLETELY unrelated to whether he was given due process in his firing or not. He was going to get fired with due process or without it. I'm positive if he had gotten his "hearing," IF he was entitled to one and IF he didn't get one he would have still been fired. Due process arguments are now just about how much money he gets paid.
Bo you should stop trying to conflate the issues of whether ML was fired sloppily with whetther ML was going to get fired.
I will say tht it's no longer stupid for the ML truthers to go on and on about his virtues and the ill intentions of those aligned against him. It no longer matters because he is cooked regardless.
188.8.131.529/20/2016 3:49:43 PM
125+ something posts of misinformation and guarantees that proved totatlly false from Bo Knows
...all of them intentional misinformation
del taxi9/20/2016 4:08:25 PM
Rich, to MV and Bo's point, it doesn't matter if more people are upset at Lonergan or GW, only that people are upset with GW.
Lonergan doesn't know me and our paths will probably never cross. GW on the other hand is actively asking me for money in exchange for what is likely to be an inferior product. Even if the decision to fire Lonergan was ultimately the correct one, it appears that GW botched the process, at least from a PR point of view. If they botched it from a contracts point of view, GW will be asking me for money year-after-year for a (likely) inferior products while paying Lonergan not to coach. That is a terrible sales pitch.
Sadly, not renewing season tickets is basically the only way to show my displeasure with GW's poor management of the situation. In that sense, I think MV hit the nail on the head:
There must be a clearly communicated position on why the school reached the decision it did, what exactly happened that led to the decision, what did the investigation produce, and did ML ever have a chance to tell his side of the story before being terminated. These are the things I'd like to know in determining whether the school was justified in its decision. No, the school is not forced to reveal these details. And, individuals are not forced to donate to the school. Two way street.
Am I going to stop being a GW fan? Of course not. But how GW handles the situation going forward certainly will influence whether, or how much, time and money I dedicate to GW basketball. I have to imagine there are others with no personal ties/loyalty to Lonergan that feel the same way.
The MV9/20/2016 4:16:50 PM
+1 Del Taxi.
Bo Knows9/20/2016 4:48:57 PM
del taxi exactly.
Bo Knows9/20/2016 4:53:33 PM
Thinker apparently you suffer form the same malady as Rich, reading comprehension. This thread is about the reaction to the firing and the fallout for GW. I think I pretty expressly stated the following: "We are not discussing the decision - it has been made - it is irreversible."
thinker9/20/2016 6:41:42 PM
When a large institution is making an "institutional" decision - like this decision was, then they are not particularly factoring in short term consequences. OBVIOUSLY they felt they HAD to fire ML. We certainly don't know many of the key details and perhaps never will. GW has always been pretty conservative about things like this. This is really almost completely unprecedented SO you can be SURE that they didn't take this step unless they felt they had no other choice.
I would hazzard a guess that in order to get fired in this disruptive way, there has to be more to the story than we know yet. And I can't imagine that he got fired because of his "courageous stand" against the predatory PN. NOTE I have ZERO idea what PN did or didn't do.
The planning around the firing so far seems woefully inadequate, but I also don't know how this all came about. But it REALLY doesn't make sense for anyone to reach some profound conclusion about their relationship with GW and basketball going foward until we see how things play out and what additional information becomes available.
Obviously everyone is free to do whatever they want but I'd think people would want to know a lot more before deciding if one is going to be a fan any more.
Mentzinger9/20/2016 6:49:19 PM
Our biggest mistake would be to assume any additional information is coming out about this. Why should it? Who gains? Lawsuits thrive on information control. Too much money on the table, too many reputations at stake to expect GW to make any announcement at all until it releases its decision on the HC, and even then it will be cursory, bland information. Do not expect any narratives from ML or GW prior to a settlement, and expect any settlement to include nondisparagement clauses and gag orders. I'm considering this matter closed, at least as an ugly PR disaster. I don't consider the next 10 years of basketball irrelevancy to have even begun yet. That starts next fall.
On a personal note, I am RIPSHIT at our university's inability to deal with ANY on-court success in its flagship program. This is three coaches out of five in my fandom who have flamed out spectacularly and with great harm to the school.
GW699/20/2016 8:52:57 PM
Mentz-your last paragraph is so right-on.And painful.
thinker9/20/2016 11:22:34 PM
You're speaking the logic of a rational person. If ML was interested in or able to exercise control and discipline over what he said or what his supporters said, he wouldn't have gotten fired in the first place. Just today he started the whole whistleblower narrative with the Junkies, and reported dilligently here on the board.
I have not seen or heard anything anywhere alleging anything that ML did OTHER than not being able to keep his mouth shut. I don't believe he hit anyone, stole anything, cheated on anything. As best as I can tell, he ALWAYS stood for the National Anthem. He never was an ISIS supporter. He didn't drink and drive. He never was accused of hitting his wife or kids. Whatever one can think of -- BUT he just couldn't keep his mouth shut and the things he insisted on saying ultimately got him fired because it ruined his relationship with GW.
So, Mentz don't be so sure that all of a sudden he's going to find the precious gift of silence. If that was possible for him he'd be getting ready for Midnight Madnees not spending his days with his $500 an hour lawyers.
184.108.40.206/20/2016 11:31:45 PM
But of course Thinker knows exactly what Lonergan said right? Please tell us all with some specificity. I am sure you have read all the reports.
The Dude9/20/2016 11:44:24 PM
Mentz/GW69/others, spot on.
thinker9/21/2016 3:25:46 AM
I have no idea what ML said other than the things reported. Did he punch someone in the head? Not that I know of so I believe he got fired for shit he's said - that part doesn't seem that complicated.
Maine Colonial9/21/2016 4:55:13 AM
Haven't you all employed someone who is just such a pain in the ass that you eventually have to let them go? They sometimes have a disability they take advantage of to fight getting terminated but it only delays the inevitable.Their real problem is usually not being able to follow orders and get along with people and disrupting the team. Mike is such a loose cannon that he had to go. He's embarrassed the school with some of his antics whether they were wearing a grass skirt and coconut shells in Hawaii and acting up at his daughter's game or obsessing about PN's sexuality and making his players miserable. Now he's battling getting terminated and spreading rumors that are causing the school further embarrassment. Would anyone on this board put up with an employee who acted like Mike? Really?
Skittles9/21/2016 10:21:10 AM
Yeah because ML having fun in Hawaii hurt the school in some way. You guys literally KILL the reputation of the GW fan base. I cannot wait for the facts to come out on this and every single incident that happened behind the scenes. This site will explode when it does.
220.127.116.119/21/2016 10:26:06 AM
we won't hold our breath Skittles. You've been saying that for weeks.
Rich Maier9/21/2016 10:51:38 AM
keep dreaming skittles. remember that you are one of Lonergan's minions saying ML did nothing wrong and he would not be fired, etc. you had a great reputation here but it all went up in BS on the biggest story in years. at least Bo apologized for the disinformation campaign. why don't you?
Skittles9/21/2016 11:40:41 AM
I NEVER gave false information. I said he should get a contract extension by end of month. At the time it was likely to be talked on and given the NIT championship likely to occur per my sources. Turns out they went ahead with the article and it didn't happen obviously. I didn't promise you jack. I gave some FACTS into the ML-Nero situation, I never knew for sure he would win but given the huge amount of support and evidence that ML holds I believed he would win this. Turns out the school made the WRONG call, but soon enough everything I've said will be proven correct and the person they should have fired will be. Everything I was able to say about the Nero stuff and the false allegations is fact, not my opinion and has been verified by multiple people in the know. It's just the tip of the iceberg. I have been proven right every single time before this, nothing has changed. Skittles out.
The MV9/21/2016 11:51:26 AM
Skittles, I believe you. Any chance that you are 100% right but PN keeps his job?
That's the problem with many here. ML gets fired so people claim that the ML "truthers" were wrong (about what prompted Mike to act out the way he did.). Not at all necessarily the case.
Skittles9/21/2016 12:00:07 PM
Thanks MV. There's no way everything comes out and he's still there when the smoke clears. Even the little that has leaked is not the worst of it, and is just the tip of the iceberg. Idk if the school personally will do it but if everything is made public they'll have no choice.
Bigfan9/21/2016 12:16:17 PM
Time for everything out on the table. This secretive "investigation," half-reported story line, mysterious university press release hints, etc. only damages GW more than the truth. Believe PR experts say in a crisis, the best thing to do is put all the truth out, preferably at once.
Those who feel Lonergan was aptly dismissed come forward with some facts other hurt feelings by benchwarmers and referring to Gordon as something like "who is guarding that gay kid?", the only context it's been mentioned in. Glad to take a different view if there really is something bad. In fact, would feel better if there is a real reason for something so drastic as to fire a coach in September after a two-week team-bonding trip in Japan.
And Skittles, keep posting. You've provided interesting information. Shame media is abrograting its responsibility to report both sides of the story, but it can be done here.
On a different note, Mentzinger really nailed it on the University handling coaches and basketball success. It's why we can't have nice things.
Bo Knows9/21/2016 12:52:31 PM
Skittles, I hear you. Which is why I also took the position I did here. I thought if true there was NO way in the face of all that that ML would go.
And Rich, I only apologized for the fact I stated in a rather unqualified way that ML would not be fired. That was obviously a wrong conclusion. But if you heard what I heard (and apparently what Skittles and others heard) I don't think you would think it was such an unreasonable one to make even if it turned out wrong. I try to admit when I am wrong especially where I was so sure this wouldn't happen. Sometimes you can be reasonable and still be wrong.
Donald Trump9/21/2016 1:53:43 PM
Let's make GW basketball great again. Skittles and Bo Knows thank you for your service to our great school.