6/1/2016 8:33:45 AM      Replies: 85 9:59:03 AM

Arkansas Pine-Bluff?

Craig Martinez5/21/2016 10:05:34 AM

... So we are gonna get shredded in conference... Right?

Mentzinger5/21/2016 12:22:02 PM

Jon Rothstein@JonRothstein 3h3 hours ago

George Washington will host Arkansas Pine-Bluff as part of its 16-17 non-conference schedule, source told @CBSSports.

Wisconsin Colonial5/21/2016 1:41:11 PM

Ark - Pine Bluff plays all OOC games on the road, to make as much $ as possible.

Tk5/21/2016 2:22:38 PM

Better get your tickets right when they go on sale I'm sure this one will be an instant sellout 

ziik5/21/2016 2:35:36 PM

Ethnic and academic diversity can be good things. 

amcolonial5/21/2016 2:39:08 PM

Considering that we had Seton Hall, UVa, Army (eh), Penn State, and Rutgers (lol) in our gym last year, kind of disappointing that our home schedule so far is:

Penn State 
Arkansas-Pine Bluff

ziik5/21/2016 3:29:19 PM

I was thinking it was a Mountaineer type school. Is it a historically black school? They sure struggled last season.

Poog5/21/2016 3:30:43 PM

Has a lot to do with all the newcomers to Foggy Bottom. Who needs to get killed by a killer schedule? Let the lineup grow and develop against more reasonable opposition and then take on the A-10 schedule with some confidence.

Andrew EC5/21/2016 3:54:28 PM

Ugh.  I thought the administration had finally realized scheduling these 330+ RPI schools was a lose-lose proposition.  I get the need for a young team to face a less rigorous OOC schedule than 2015-2016's, but bringing in this kind of dreck is counterproductive.

Play Navy.  Play NJIT.  Play a bunch of non-Harvard Ivy League schools.  But I don't see how playing a team like Arkansas-Pine Bluff is going to help GW grow or develop, and even if they win by 40, opponents like this hurt GW's post-season resume.


Bigfan5/21/2016 4:22:20 PM

Andrew has it right.

This is just stupid.Play somene with a less than 300 RPI. 

Geez,at least play Little Rock,if stuck on a slteam from Arkansas that is Arkansas.

Doesn't help the team grow. 

Not likely,if somehow,some way,we have a chance at postseason play, this would hurt.

Doesn't seem smart.

Maybe it was just for the box office appeal of playing Arkansas-Pine Bluff.

ziik5/21/2016 4:24:01 PM

Its one school on a lengthy schedule. And, it spreads the GW name to another entire audience. Maybe some bright boy or girl in Arkansas adds GW to the "apply" list, and does something special in life. You gonna say "NO!"to that one kid? What a cruel man. Picking on a kid. 4:58:26 PM

Lonergan and Nero conceding that they can't compete for NCAA bid in 2017 - hence this schedule. And as Poog wisely pointed out - this will be a schedule that builds towards the future: give the freshmen minutes, won't kill confidence, etc. With this past year being the blown opportunity on the NCAAs, this seems to be a reset year for the program. 

GW Alum Abroad5/21/2016 5:07:25 PM

Or is this part of the CBE prelim round? I don't think it is a bad thing to schedule this team against some lesser teams. We are not looking at a senior Core 4 +TC aiming for a tourney run (albeit in the wrong tourney) but at TC, Yuta and The Newbies hoping to stay afloat. 

Skittles5/21/2016 5:24:34 PM

The exempt tournament GW is in gives GW 2 home games.  They don't have any say in who they get.  Siena who will be a top 100 RPI team is one team and Arkansas-Pine Bluff is the other.  They were given to GW.  You have no idea how these exempt tourneys work or how difficult scheduling is for ML.  He will play anyone anywhere.  After the seton hall and UVA wins scheduling is more difficult than ever.  Even getting home and homes with Penn St, USF and UCF is nearly impossible.  Look at the nonconference schedule before ML arrived.

FredD5/21/2016 5:29:19 PM

I have to laugh. Awesome OOC Schedule based on opponent's conference affiliation last year and it HARDLY moved the needle. Nobody showed up. And now with a young team we get complaints?!? 

xAC5/21/2016 5:29:33 PM

Yes, they didn't do well, but look at their OOC this past year - and remember, all on the road: Oklahoma State, Michigan State, Cinncinatti, Nebraska, Virginia Tech, Iowa State, Texas Tech, Missouri, Santa Clara, and Hawaii. If nothing else, this has to help them recruit- at least on the margins.

Andrew EC5/22/2016 9:35:14 AM

Skittles - are you suggesting that Arkansas-Pine Bluff is a game required by the CBE?  Where have you seen this?  

Obviously, I think most of us here were assuming the Arkansas-Pine Bluff game was a standard OOC schedule; if it's mandated by the CBE, I withdraw my objections.

Skittles5/22/2016 10:01:42 AM

yes Andrew, per my sources both Siena and APB are CBE home games 

thinker5/22/2016 12:02:57 PM

I hate this OOC. Why can't we have all good home games??? Everybody knows that making the OOC is like going to a sushi restaurant where you just check off all the items you want on the menu and they bring it right aay to your table..

ziik5/22/2016 12:08:31 PM

Agree with thinker. GW needs to bring back UVa, or tell them, no game at the Smith, then no return trips to C' ville

LuvDaGame5/22/2016 12:10:16 PM

@Skittles - I recently read an article on multi-team exempt events (MTE) and it spoke about pre-arranged games. Is this the same as what you speak about concerning Siens and APB? Not even pretending to understand this but I have to admit it has peaked my interest.

Skittles5/22/2016 6:58:59 PM

yes, LuvDaGame. It was prearranged and ML has no say in which teams they played. 

The Dude5/22/2016 7:14:12 PM

I'd like to see the removal of as many 330 RPI's as possible.  When people here cite the # of wins, lets recall that a lot of have come over Cream Puffs.     

to that end I agree with Andrew EC and others

Skittles5/22/2016 7:49:10 PM

The Dude, they had no choice these are mandatory games. I of course agree with removing cupcakes and aiming high as possible, but recent wins like Va make that more difficult plus this particular game is part of the tourney 

Alumnus5/22/2016 9:00:50 PM

Skittles, you said "this particular game is part of the tourney."  In fact, the CBE website does NOT show these games.  It says "Three-time NCAA champion Kansas will join Georgia, 2016 NIT Champion George Washington and UAB for the championship rounds of the 2016 CBE Hall of Fame Classic November 21 and 22 at Sprint Center." 

If these games are actually part of the tournament and teams other than the four teams listed could be in the semifinal and final rounds, I'd say we're participating in some kind of shell game.  As I quoted, "will join ... for the championship rounds".  I don't see how that could be interpreted differently.  If I bought a ticket to the semis and finals based on this apparent guarantee that the four teams named above would be in them, and Arkansas-Pine Bluff and god knows who else showed up, my first move would be to contact the FTC and ask what kind of deceptive advertising lured me into buying the tickets. 

As far as the competitive aspect, if we have to play these two games but are guaranteed to play 2 out of Kansas, UAB and Georgia in the actual tournament, I'd say that's a decent tradeoff.  If these games are actually part of the tournament and we could wind up playing some comparably low-ranked team for 5th or 7th place if we happen to flub one of the first two games, I have to question whether it's really something we should've committed to.  In the bigger picture, we have possibly one of the best players ever to play at GW with us for one more season and, because the team had a lot of turnover, fans would rather see him play against a bunch of cupcakes instead of in a few more challenging games?  Not me.  I want to see him play against good teams so he can show how good he is, not to mention we have Yuta who needs to learn from the get-go how to be a dominant player.  As a ticketholder, hit the snooze button for me please.       

ziik5/22/2016 9:09:53 PM

Alumnus--keep looking at sites about the CBE. I was curious, too. This is a tourney that disliked having the underdog team upset the big name squad a few years ago, so they set up this format, were the Finall Four is set from the get go. 

thinker5/22/2016 10:06:06 PM

I don't think people get how hard it is to set up the perfect OOC schedule.

A)  With ML's record at home and against high level teams there's not a lot of incentive for top 100 type teams to want to play at the Smith Center. When UVA played at GW last year they were taking all of the risk and GW was taking none. No matter the outcome, UVA couldn't relly "win" and GW couldn't really "lose."

B)  What about 150-200 level teams? Those are games where GW takes all the risk and the opposing team takes none. GW is "supposed" to win these games and a loss is crushing. And those kinds of teams aren't really going to move the needle for any fan anyway. Last year Penn State finished at 121, Siena at 123. Who's excited about those games? UCF melted down last year so who knows what they'll be, but this game was set up before LAST season. Same as the USF game. Frankly scheduling the Florida games could have been related to GW doing more recruiting in the state.

C)  Don't discount how important it is for ML to work out his lineups, rotations, team chemistry before the conference schedule. I'm sure he'd like to have some wiggle room to work that out and not have a bunch of crushing losses to middling teams in the meantime.

When the season starts (as the roster stands now) GW will have:

2 players who have played substantive minutes for GW (plus Hart)

2 transfers who have played elsewhere

1 player who played a few spot minutes for GW (plus Goss?)

6 freshmen

At the time that scheduling decisions are being made ML has never even had a practice with SEVEN of those guys. I really doubt that ML thinks it's to GW's advantage to lose a bunch of early games figuring things out.

BTW I'm sure this was a major factor in deciding to do the Japan trip this summer - a lot of bonding and workouts with lots of new guys.

The Ross-Man!5/22/2016 11:11:06 PM

This is the same thing as last year with Army and the 11AM Gardner Webb game as part of the Barclays Center Classic.  The games were organized as part of the tourney but had no bearing on GW playing at Barclays vs. tennessee in the first game.  Not sure why there seems to be such confusion about this.  

Skittles5/22/2016 11:15:01 PM

Thank you Ross-Man

The Dude5/22/2016 11:38:58 PM

To be clear, I am referring to a strategy and long term one.

Do ADs and Coaches have agency in the strength of schedule? Hell yes. Gonzaga has found a way to play a beastly SOS, and Gtown always played under JT2 total tomato cans, as does Indiana under tom crean that jackass that Bo worships

The AD and the Head Coach have a lot of incentive to schedule tomato cans so they can point out that the record is very robust no matter how it happened or who the schools played.  If you have brass balls like Mark Few you take on Blue Bloods and BCS schools with glee, if you are Karl Hobbs and Jack K .... well you all know the rest of the setence dontcha??


thinker5/22/2016 11:43:10 PM


Bigfan5/23/2016 1:17:29 AM

Well then, we apparently didn't have a choice on Pine Bluff. Wish they found someone better  for us.

And hope for later than 11 a.m. start.

Long Suffering Fan5/23/2016 7:38:42 AM

I am sure that there must be a logical reason to have an 8 team tournament but only 4 teams play at the actual tournament site and have a chance to win it.  Is 8 a required number to get the "exempt' status?   Otherwise, not sure how GW playing Arkansas Pine-Bluff really enhances the tournament at all.   FWIW...I saw an earlier announcement listing the participants of the tournament and indeed SIena was listed.  The 8th team was "TBA"...I guess that is Arkansas Pine-Bluff, even though I did not see the formal announcement.  In terms of home scheduling, I agree with the others about the difficulty we are encountering.  We have a very long home OOC winning streak (I believe over 20), and why would any quality team have to gain by plaing us, espcially a non-local quality team that would not even benefit from the large gate.   The old BB&T format seeemed to be the best method to get strong OOC opponants to play us in DC. Still, if we are going to play non power conference teams at home, we should be looking at some of the stronger CAA or Conference USA teams, which I would imagine is still doable in terms of scheduling.   

Skyhigh5/23/2016 8:02:01 AM

One of the first things you learn in competition sports or for that matter in life. Never under estimate your opponent.  It may not be a meaningful game to GW fans, but it certainly is a step up for the opposition. Bill Russell use to say if they keep score you should try to win, and I'm sure they will be trying to win. Don't let the opponent surprise you. 

The Dude5/23/2016 8:21:15 AM

Piling up wins over 300 RPIs is the formula for ....for missing the NCAA tourney, the NCAA says so every year.  You can win 24 25 games, but if 8-10 of the 11 OOC wins are over total tomato cans, you aren't impressing anyone, you probably ain't dancin;  Except a few fans who will defaul to # of wins as the benchmark for a program's success, even if the wins are largely vs the tomato cans of the OOC and the bottom half of the A10.

I am 100% sure Nero and ML are not following the Jack and Hobbs approach.  Which benefits no one in the long run except the on the hot seat AD/HC.  How do I know? I observe as I presume all of you do too.



Thomas5/23/2016 9:03:55 AM

In a thread last season about the Barclays tournament that GW was in with Cincinnati and Tennessee, it was mentioned that Kentucky lost to Gardner-Webb at home in an early-season OOC several years ago. Kentucky didn't advance to the semifinals at the larger venue, and from that point on, the organizers for these tournaments made it a rule that the 4 headliner teams would advance to the semifinals whether they won or lost to the "lesser" teams. That's the reason GW, Kansas, Georgia and UAB are already penciled into the semifinals. If the organizers only want to have 4 big-name schools playing in large venue, they should just make it a 4-team event. I guess the good thing for the 4 headliner teams is that if they are upset by one or more of the "lesser" teams, they can redeem themselves in the CBE semifinals.

ATL Colonial5/23/2016 9:11:20 AM

Did everyone we're likely playing Kansas in Kansas City in what is basically a road game?

ATL Colonial5/23/2016 9:11:53 AM

Did everyone forget we're likely playing Kansas in Kansas City in what is basically a road game? 9:23:59 AM

Add another 300+ RPI to the schedule in University of Maryland Eastern Shore:


The MV5/23/2016 11:18:49 AM

If I were Lonergan and Nero, I would schedule nothing but sub-300 home games wherever I could and call it GW's Fuck You schedule.  As in, fuck you that we brought in Seton Hall last year and couldn't draw 2,300 fans.  That Big 10 teams Penn State and Rutgers (I understand, not exactly two of the conference's better squads) each couldn't attract 3,300 people.  Or that Army, a rare and what should have been popular draw, couldn't break the 2,800 mark.

And as for that 11am game, it was not only hilarious (we played great and the screaming kids were very humorous), but attendance for that matchup with Gardner Webb outdrew each of the above games (nearly 3,800 thanks to the schools).  I haven't even mentioned how UVA and VCU were responsible for 30%-50% of our home attendance during those games.

So by all means, bring on Arkansas Pine Bluff and Maryland Eastern Shore as this is precisely what this fan base deserves.  We tried it one year the way we all wanted, last year, and not nearly enough of us showed up. 11:47:42 AM

We had a decent OOC this past year, but it didn't help. Unless we can do better in the A10 conference, our chances for making the NCAAs is still up for grabs and out of our control. We can complain all we want about Georgetown's abysmal OOC schedule, but they still get more love than GW. We should always try to schedule as strong an OOC as we can each year, and bring the best teams possible to Smith Center. The fans on this board will appreciate it, but the distinction is lost on the greater GW community.

ziik5/23/2016 12:34:13 PM

I think Seton Hall has no panache at all for the casual bball fan. Rutgers, PennState, as mediocre as they are, have that BIG STATE U thibg going for them. Surprising few alums or fans showed. 


Army oght to have been easy to market. Paper the Pentagon, and give 1/2 price tickets to enlisted men, or any fans who show up in uniform. 

Otherwise, every guy on this board should bring 3 pals with him, every game he goes to. Hell, when I was in better shape, I nought tickets to GW for an entire high school bball squad and coaches: boys and girls teams, both. ANd they showed I al o bought tickets to a game for an entire home for the disabled. Ed McKee made it happen, at a reasonable fee. 

Dude--you have the cash? Use it to bring kids to the games

2cents5/23/2016 2:25:40 PM

I really think this year will be viewed, scheduled and coached like a rebuilding year.  Maybe we should temper expectations and take what we get. I'm certainly not expecting the dance!  I think the best thing that will come out of this season is the ability to better gauge what the 2017-2018 season might bring...anything else is bonus. 

FredD5/23/2016 2:25:58 PM

+300 RPI% MV! I am in total agreement. For those of you who missed the Gardner Webb game it was a blast and those cheered and made a ton of noise. Look if our fan base equaled the Smitty's size Duquesne would have sold out after the asswhipping we took in Pittsburgh last year. Nero should save the money to fly charter!

Goo Colonials Go5/23/2016 2:37:00 PM

From Jon Rothstein:

George Washington will host Maryland Eastern Shore as part of its 16-17 non-conference schedule, source told @CBSSports.

Yea, this is not looking like a very impressive or challenging OOC schedule. 


Bigfan5/23/2016 3:57:20 PM

Certainly seems dumb,but maybe there' s a reason for it.

On the face of it,you are not guaranteed a win against the 300 plus RPI,a loss is devastasting (if losses to St. Louis and DePaul kept us out of the NCAAs last year,what could a loss to.Md. Eastern Shore do? Keep us out of the Vegas 16.

For those who complain about attendance, don' t think Eastern Shore is going to help,unless they bring free crabcakes.

We might already have written off the NCAAs,but what about the NIT again,when getting in would be good,not disappointing,or perhaps the CBI. Are we giving up on those,as well.

In any case,the new Core6 needs to learn and grow against at least equivalent competition next year,which they largely won' t get in Japan.

Thought we were getting smarter about scheduling in the Nero era.

Maybe this is smart for some reason. Would like to know why.

Craig Martinez5/23/2016 4:44:15 PM

Oh Damn...


Bigfan, do you have any more intel on the free crabcakes?

Class of 135/23/2016 5:59:15 PM

I'd say wait for the whole schedule to come out before we make any conclusions on how good or bad the schedule is. There's still 3 games we don't know about yet and they could change the percpetion of our schedule in a hurry.

On the point of Gonzaga, it took them about 7-9 years of making the tournament until they were able to get home games against the football schools. They basicaly made a living out of playing big names on the road, or having a home and home where their home game was played in Seattle or in Spokane's larger arena. In fact they were averaging 5+ neutral court games a year in the OOC for a few years in the mid 00's.

So, considering our program lacks the big name appeal for made for tv games, and that few coaches have Tony Bennett balls and will sign up for a visit to a 4500 seat gym like Smitty, I'm all in favor with trying to get a couple big time home and homes where our home game is in Verizon. I'd all support us taking cash and playing a no return road game with a big name program.

But I also am not going to criticize the powers at be for not scheduling such games if their philosophy is they only want to play teams that will make a trip to the Smith Center in return.


Bigfan5/23/2016 5:59:19 PM

Actually know a place with great crabcakes at Delaware shore.

Maybe they have a pickup team that can play us and cater he game.

Probably not much different RPI impact. 

thinker5/23/2016 6:09:59 PM

Stop with the Gonzaga comparisons. GW is really nothing like Gonzaga as far as basketball is concerned.

ziik5/23/2016 6:17:34 PM

Thinker is thinking the right thoughts about Gonzaga. Catholic, and, what? The only game in town? Maybe St Bona. has students who want to be like Gonzaga. That might be a closer match. (Of course, there is no reason whatever to travel to Olean.)

I cannot think of an apt basketball power as a model for GW right now. It may take a week. 

thinker5/23/2016 9:13:48 PM

Different kind of school, different kind of students, different kind of campus, different kind of administration, different kind of city, different kind of community

icarly5/23/2016 11:56:47 PM

Its going to be hard getting through such a tough slate of playing Howard and Ark Pine Bluff. You better believe our players will be tested and we really need to have all the fans out for that one. 

bobo5/24/2016 12:04:05 AM

The Selection Committee generally groups a team's opponents into RPI tiers: RPI Top 25, 26-100, 101-200, 201+.  There is little to any difference in RESUME between playing a team 220 vs 330.  It does effect a team's overall RPI and SOS but those are of much less importance than resume.

So last year GW had 7 OOC games vs RPI 200+.  They won all of them. GW also went 4-1 vs RPI 200 + in the A10.  Hopefully they'll have less wins vs RPI 200 in conf if the bottom teams can get better and NO losses vs RPI 200 if they can prevent a SLU fuck up. 

Next year they have 5 games so far vs RPI 200+ from last year.  UCF had a BPI of 168 and was a better team than their RPI indicated so I'm saying right now GW is facing 4 RPI 200+ teams in the OOC next year.

The real problem is the lack of possible "good wins".  GW needs some RPI top 100 wins to put themselves in a good position.  Siena was ranked RPI 100 last year.  Maybe PSU can finally get good.  GW could play 2 good teams in the CBE Tournament in Kansas. If one of those teams is actually KU, that's a loss. 

I think GW has 3-5 more games to schedule in the OOC.  They'll need  at least 2 of them to be vs RPI Top 100 teams.  2 winable but challenging road games is what Nero & Lonergan needs to put up on the boards right now.

BC5/24/2016 12:04:38 AM

What will we have 8? new players?  It will be an interesting year.   Whose curse is "May you live in interesting times"? 

Long Suffering Fan5/24/2016 7:55:26 AM

For those who are bashing the athletic department for what appears to be a weak OOC home schedule, all I can say is "lighten up" a bit.   Unlike the prior administration which I believe intentionally padded the schedule in exchange for wins, I don't believe this to be the case with the present administration, who has demonstrated time and again a commitment to try to schedule as difficult schedule as possible.    I strongly suspect, but I am not certain, that we did not have to choose between Duke and Arkansas Pine Bluff when putting together next year's slate.  I am sure that there are many top teams that are willing to play us...once...at their place, and good for the AD for saying no.  What we are seeing this year is the consequence of being such a good OOC home team.   Hopefully that will improve...but I hope everyone sees the challenges and eases up a bit.

BC5/24/2016 4:58:11 PM

GW INfo on the CBE games.  LINK

The MV5/24/2016 6:01:46 PM

LSF, while I agree with the spirit of your post, there's one point that I have to object to.  While it may be a rightfully principled thing to turn down a road game against any school that won't return the game in DC, that decision (if in fact this is now our official stance) offers serious ramifications.  It means that the OOC schedule could consist of Kansas possibly being a lone Top 100 opponent and almost definitely a lone Top 50 opponent.  Should GW be a bubble team, that could prove to be very detrimental.    Look no further than last year's St. Bonaventure squad that was the A10's regular season co-champion yet failed to receive an at large bid.  Their 11 game OOC schedule consisted of just 1 top 50 opponent (a loss at Syracuse) with 5 of the 11 games against teams with RPI's of 225 or worse.  While there were some decent teams on the schedule (Hofstra, Buffalo, Ohio), nobody other than Syracuse represented the sort of eye-catching opponent that an A10 school needs to beat in order to better their position.  Again, this is a pointless discussion if GW doesn't perform well enough in conference.  But the Bonnies did do that last year, but were left out in the cold, because they had no significant OOC wins, giving themselves very few opportunities in the process.

Bigfan5/24/2016 6:21:47 PM

Not that we can' t lose to anyone,but Hofstra,Buffalo and Ohio would be better for us in numerous ways.

Md. Eastern Shore invokes the memory and scheduling phllosophy of the evil, Cowardly Lion up the street.

Pkgw5/24/2016 6:33:33 PM

Does Gw pay for these schools to visit?  If so, it may be a budget issue since UMES is short bus ride.

BC5/24/2016 6:56:27 PM

We've played UMES many times.   

Bo Knows5/24/2016 6:59:16 PM

I have absolutely zero problem with the schedule so far. Why? We need to build confidence as a group and playing a steady of diet of tough teams in the first two months will not do that with 6 freshmen. We have a good mix for this team. We have no idea if this is a team where SOS will even matter in March. And, if they are that good ... they will have ample opportunity to do well in conference. This is a year that undoubtedly will end better than it begins as these guys grow and mature but none of us can predict how fast that process will take. I think PN and ML understand this and have scheduled accordingly. 

thinker5/24/2016 8:44:15 PM

More than 6 freshmen, Bo.

Two sophmores who played very few minutes last year.

One transfer from the Ivy League (it took Mitola half a season to adjust to the A-10)

One transfer who hasn't played a real game since early 2015 when he left his team during the season because of the toxic locker room

A former walkon who played some decent spot minutes here and there


TWO returning starters that played major minutes last year

It's not about a lot of freshmen to me -- it's about being a whole new team where ML has to figure out what he has and build chemistry and determine rotations on the run.

Bo Knows5/24/2016 10:20:03 PM

Thinker I agree in part and disagree in part. Sina, Steeves, Hart, Roland, Goss have all at least been to college, learned the regimen and been in the bright lights even if some had limited playing time or no playing time last year.

The six freshmen have the adjustment to college and adjustment to the brighter lights. Those are the guys you know the least about right now. They have never even had one practice under their belt. They represent nearly 50% of the team. To me, these freshmen are the greatest unknown until they show what they can do.

Confidence is huge in this game and playing against tough opponents especially on the road at this level is something you need to learn. Sina has faced top 20 teams, so has Roland, Steeves and Hart. Not one of the freshmen has ever been on the floor with a top 20 team.

The thing that will keep ML up at night early in the season is not going to be Steeves, Sina, Roland, Hart or Goss (and of course Yuta and Tyler).



bobo5/24/2016 10:29:44 PM

WASHINGTON -- The George Washington basketball program on Tuesday announced four of its non-conference games for the 2016-17 season, including a matchup with Penn State and the season opener on Friday, Nov. 11.

The Colonials, who own a 24-game non-conference home winning streak, will open the season in the Charles E. Smith Center with Maryland Eastern-Shore on the 11th. It marks the first meeting between the teams since 2011, when GW took a 64-48 victory in the debut under then-first-year head coach Mike Lonergan.

As one of four host teams for the CBE Classic in Kansas City, GW will also play two home games as part of the event. The Colonials will face Siena on Tuesday, Nov. 15, and Arkansas Pine Bluff on Thursday, Nov. 17, at Smith Center. Following that, GW will join Georgia, Kansas and UAB at the Sprint Center in Kansas City, with games on Monday, Nov. 21 and Tuesday, Nov. 22. Matchups have yet to be determined.

The Colonials return home after the Thanksgiving holiday and will host Penn State on Saturday, Nov. 26, as part of a home-and-home agreement that will see GW return the game to PSU in 2017-18. Last season, the Colonials took a 76-66 victory over Penn State at home, and over the past three years hold a 17-9 record against teams from other power conferences.

Season tickets go on sale Monday, July 11th. Visit getGWtix.com or call 202-99-GWTIX for more details.

Confirmed Opponents, Dates and Locations

Friday, Nov. 11 | vs. UMES | Charles E. Smith Center
Tuesday, Nov. 15 | vs. Siena | Charles E. Smith Center (CBE Classic)
Thursday, Nov. 17 | vs. Arkansas Pine Bluff | Charles E. Smith Center (CBE Classic)
Monday, Nov. 21 | vs. Georgia/Kansas/UAB | Sprint Center, Kansas City (CBE Classic)
Tuesday, Nov. 22 | vs. Georgia/Kansas/UAB | Sprint Center, Kansas City (CBE Classic)
Saturday, Nov. 26 | vs. Penn State | Charles E. Smith Center

thinker5/24/2016 11:26:01 PM

I agree with your point Bo. My additional point is that ML doesn't know how the pieces will fit together either

The MV5/25/2016 9:54:40 AM

Bo, this isn't an either/or situation.  It doesn't have to be either a steady diet of tough teams nor should it be Kansas as potentially the lone Top 100 OOC opponent.  I recognize the schedule hasn't been completed but if it is now our intention not to play any schools on the road without a return game, then this is very close to reality.

And, this is detrimental.  I understand that a team that isn't experienced playing together shouldn't throw themselves into a fire.  But this is secondary in my mind to crafting a schedule that allows for a better opportunity at receiving an at large bid.  If Kansas is the lone top 100 OOC opponent, this schedule would provide practically zero margin for error.  The argument that SOS may have no meaning by the end of the year is meaningless.  You should never count on this being the case, and should always plan as if it is going to matter.  This team can do well in conference whether they go 10-1 OOC against a soft schedule or 7-4 OOC against a more challenging one.

It was great to have these home and homes these past two years but it's become obvious that high quality programs are not rushing to schedule a game at Smith Center.  That's understandable, but what isn't is the response that we will not schedule any such games on the road as a result.  This policy will only hurt GW.  Go back to the Kansas State formula and try to schedule a few 2 for 1's (2 away games in exchange for 1 home game).  If that won't work, schedule a few road one-off's against Top 50 schools. 

While our conference play kept us out of the Dance the past two years, it's no secret that wins over nationally ranked teams (Wichita State, UVA, and of course, Creighton the year we did go) were what was largely responsible for GW being on the bubble and coming as close as they did.  We need an ample number of comparable opportunities even if they must be played away from home without a return game.

Bo Knows5/25/2016 10:14:55 AM

MV don't disagree in general just not this year. We have a decent balance of games. Not all that much different than last year with the exception of playing Kansas on the road and Virginia at home and no one comparable to Seton Hall. Rutgers, Penn State were awful last year. This is the age old problem of the better GW gets the tougher it will be to schedule home games against quality opponents.

The MV5/25/2016 10:32:09 AM

Bo, in the words of Cris Carter, "Come on man."  Didn't you mean to say nobody comparable to Seton Hall, or Cincinnati, or Tennessee?  If we had three opponents who were comparable to these three, I'd feel much better about things.  Penn State wasn't awful last year (RPI was 121) but this doesn't really matter since we get them again.

Also disagree with the "just not this year" statement as this response tells me you're missing my point.  OK, mabe this year, on a scale of 1-10, the OOC schedule should be a 6 or 7 and not a 9.  But, the point is that it can never be a 4 or worse because that type of schedule, which is what I believe we will be seeing, makes it incredibly tough to garner an at large bid.  And yes, even with a team that has little experience playing together, this program has earned the right to view each and every season with a realistic chance to reach the dance.  Therefore, making things harder on themselves with an ultra soft schedule doesn't do anyone any favors.

bobo5/25/2016 10:58:17 AM

I think if you're going to have a philosophy of playing a tough schedule you can't do that off and on, de epending on what you think the team looks like each year.  You have to play a competitive schedule every year. 

GW has 0 true road games on the schedule so far.  That's not likely to be the final result.  GW under ML/Nero generally have scheduled at least 2 pure road games and I'd expect the same this year.  It just a question of which teams. 

If ML/Nero say no 1 and done games vs top BCS teams, fine.  But let's see who they can schedule home and homes with.  UVA said they wanted to come to play at GW because they like to come to the DC market and they can't do so anymore vs UMD.  So there are ACC and AAC teams that used to come to DC to play UMD and GU and might want to play GW to fill that role.

Maybe a WF, Clemson, Temple, VT, BC or good teams from the Colonial.  Start the next 2 on the road for GW. If they get beat, so what.  GW should win all their home OOC and maybe 1 in Kansas.  So 3-4 OOC losses is not bad.

Poog5/25/2016 11:42:25 AM

Problem with the tango is that it takes two. Top opposing teams want to be happy for the rest of their season so they'd prefer to marry their OOC schedule with an ugly team. Kvancz complained about the difficulty of scheduling strong teams at the Smith Center but his concerns were readily dismissed here. Both Nero and Lonergan have said the same thing about the difficulties in scheduling as the program has gotten stronger -- Bennett isn't so eager to repeat that home-home. I truly believe the scheduling philosophy of Nero and Lonergan is different than that of Kvancz/Hobbs. Unfortunately, the realities of the Smith Center and scheduling opponents for the now defending NIT champion Colonials is similar. Easy for us to clamor for marquee opponents, not so easy to get them to feel our pain. Many here focus on the NCAA's as the object of the season; my view is to concentrate on preparing for doing well in the A-10 season and the rest will take care of itself (sorry, but we have slightly more cache than St. Bonaventure). By all means we should try to arrange as strong an OOC schedule as possible. There's a balancing act that has to be achieved between serving as pliant cannon fodder at the scheduling discretion of opponents and holding GW as a legitimate attraction on equal footing with other schools. Next year's team will need November and December to sort out all the pieces and find itself before the conference season begins. Nobody's suggesting that playing UMES to start the season will definitively answer any questions. But neither would throwing all these newcomers into a game against the quality of a Virginia.

The MV5/25/2016 12:02:04 PM

Poog, If the NCAA's isn't the year-end goal, then we are having a different discussion.  I do not mean to undermine the importance of conference play but the one thing every committee asks every season is "who did they play in the OOC" which is a euphemism for "did they really test themselves or did they play a pussy OOC schedule".  You've articulated the challenges of luring home games which I readily acknowledge.  The problem will be if we don't challenge ourselves with anyone outside of Kansas.  There is a long list of schools who will happily play GW on their home court without a return game.  Taking  a high and mighty "we won't do that" stand is certainly principled, but given our situation in the sport's landscape, is also not very prudent.

Poog5/25/2016 12:19:00 PM

Didn't suggest NCAA's weren't the year-end goal, only that the intense focus on that re: scheduling wasn't my cup of tea. Schedule OOC as strong as you can but at least for next year, it's more about building for A-10 season than building their NCAA resume. Next year with all the newcomers should be an entertaining season, even if it ends with us trying to defend our NIT title. Not an ideal finish but let's see how it plays out first. Both the men and the women's teams have to move on from last year. Both should do well. I can live with that.

lowpost5/25/2016 12:29:41 PM

shouldn't we consider it a compliment that the cbe directors, first considered as a top tier team and, second, gave us a gimme like pine bluff in a preliminary round.

does anyone know -- who pays pine bluff for the game at the smith center, gw or the cbe?  

it may cause minimal damage to the rpi, but a victory over on of the big boys later will more than counter that.  and, for those who think this is just a rebuilding year, it's moot anyway.

thinker5/25/2016 12:37:14 PM

I think there are valid opposing viewpoints on scheduling.

BUT I think debating the schedule deeply before it's completed doesn't make a ton of sense. There are still something like 4 games to add to the schedule so I'd like to see what those games are first. Just like declaring last season a failure in the middle of conference play was premature.

CH5/25/2016 2:27:19 PM

Bite the bullet and take the occasional one off game on the road!  They owe it to Tyler to give him a big stage and at least some level of opportunity to get to the Dance.  When he transferred to GW, he said that one of his main reasons for doing so was to play in the NCAA Tourney.

Bo Knows5/25/2016 5:46:32 PM

Thinker agreed.

MV you can't say  Cincinnati and Tennessee because in essence we swapped Georgia/UAB for one of those if you say we swapped Kansas for Virginia. So right now we are probably moderately weaker overall because I assume Penn State UCF and USF are all better than last year. But as Thinker says the schedule isn't finished. Let's see what else is added.

Mentzinger5/31/2016 10:31:24 AM

Looking ahead: Is Penn State about to solve its hoops riddle?


MG'145/31/2016 10:37:21 AM

Just announced that Richmond will play Maryland and Davidson will be playing Kansas next season.

The MV5/31/2016 11:59:42 AM

Thanks for posting that article Mentzinger.  It's always been interesting to me how some downtrodden programs always seem to remain that way while others somehow are able to rise above and sustain a more successful status.  Penn State has a difficult sell in that you're trying to get quality players to help turn things around but without enough of them, you will still likely finish in the bottom half of the conference.  Quality players don't want to lose more than they win.

The two needed ingredients are: a) hiring the right coach and staff.  Pat Chambers is a well respected coach with great area ties.  Had good success at a smaller program (BU).  I believe was also an assistant at  a top tier program (Villanova).  Lots of similarities to ML.  I think they have the right guy.  b) you need a nucleus of players who come in together are are talented enough to help turn things around.  Like our Core 4 was in the A10, maybe this freshmen trio are good enough to make PSU a Big 10 contender.  Hard to get it done with just one great player (D.J. Newbill was that guy but just didn't have enough around him.)  Sounds like these guys could have landed at more successful programs but chose to stay together and accept the challenge of helping to strongly upgrade the PSU basketball program.  Seems like this program is on the right track. 

The Dude5/31/2016 12:21:21 PM

What kills programs like Penn St is that guys show up and see a totally lifeless gym, and a school that cares almost nothing about hoops and everything about football.  they also don't care much about child rape but that's best left as an aside. Then they go visit Ohio St and Michigan and Mich St and its a joke of a contrast even for huge football schools.  I went to a few games there and the building was as dead as late Karl Hobbs era smith center. Deader than Bea Arthur may she RIP.  Dead, lifeless.

I'm with Poog and the others who have a tough time going ape sh-t over OOC, I'd personally like to see a removal of the 300s and as many good teams as possible, but meh, its a tough topic to over and over again, but I guess there's not much GW hoops to discuss on the last day of May.  There is however that guy from Davidson who lit up the sports world last night, what a SHOW!


LALaw5/31/2016 2:29:17 PM

The Dude is back with a vengeance! We missed you dude (not). How did the job interview go?

ziik5/31/2016 6:34:31 PM

Add UNC Asheville as potential CBE opponent



The Dude5/31/2016 10:45:52 PM

I am a co-owner of an Ediscovery company but thank you very much, I haven't interviewed for a job in 10 years... actually I was endurring a 7 day Shiva for my Step Father of 30 years, thx for the concern. My Mom thanks you too you piece of SH-T Blue Seats

GW hoops should be about GW hoops, and seriously go fuck yourself 8:33:45 AM

Sorry your having such a tough time.

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